| |  Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: F18arg]
#243709
02/08/12 02:07 PM 02/08/12 02:07 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz 
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Asuncion, Paraguay |
MM desgined the Infusion,F16,F20C and now the 17 but they did NOT designed the AC45, I had Mike Drummond from Oracle mailing me on that one corercting a false assumption I made, interview on the blog.
Thanks! This confirms the critics I read from another designer regarding the AC45 lines.
Luiz
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#243723
02/08/12 10:08 PM 02/08/12 10:08 PM |
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma Jeff.Dusek
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Boston, Ma | Talked to the guys who were sailing it yesterday. They were very happy with the performance. They were testing alongside a new infusion MKII, and said they had great pace, and the boat felt like a sportscar next to a truck! They will hopefully be sailing again today, and I hope to get some more feedback. Looks promising so far.
USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#243727
02/09/12 03:49 AM 02/09/12 03:49 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk TEAMVMG
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uk | For years now, the room for developement in the F18 rule has meant that each new generation of F18 designs has got faster and faster until they outperform supposedly faster boats like iF20s and Tornados.
The time has now come when the F18 rule is holding their developement back when compared to newer designs like this N17. This isn't a problem, its just that we need to accept that F18s aren't going to be getting so far up in the long distance races any more.
The F18 rule works - its the best racing across the world.
Paul
teamvmg.weebly.com
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: TEAMVMG]
#243728
02/09/12 05:43 AM 02/09/12 05:43 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe Wouter
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North-West Europe | "This Nacra 17 will have great performance, significantly better than an F18 or F16 and probably better than a Tornado in most conditions." from the catsailingnews blog
What I find interesting is that the results of this regatta seem to confirm the Texelrating for the curved foil full carbon Nacra 20 in relation to the F16's (and F18's) with aluminium masts.
Honestly, Xander Pols is certainly no a slough and neither is Greg/Christa or several of the other crews sailing.
Of course this regatta provides incidental evidence at best but it doesn't appear that the curved foils or indeed all the carbon in the world is giving the Nacra 20 speed potential beyond what is predicted by Texel on weight, length, rig type and sail area alone. Or at least not a difference that is statistically obvious.
Therefor I doubt whether the new Nacra 17 will deliver significantly better performance because of its specs alone (as taken from various blogs). Contrary to the latest marketing. Indeed, Texel prediction has the new N17 at a rating of 101 whereas the F18's are at 100 and the F16's are at 102. Never mind the Tornado at 94.
Clearly a 2 point difference between the F18's and F16's means bugger all on the water if we look at the (elapsed) results. So how significant will a single point in performance be especially when the O-class will race SMOD anyway ?
I wonder.
Last edited by Wouter; 02/09/12 08:43 AM.
Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: Gav F18]
#243729
02/09/12 05:54 AM 02/09/12 05:54 AM |
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893 waynemarlow
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| There's a fair amount of chatter regarding the "outdated and not modern anymore" F18 class. Because that is how the physchy of modern man is, we expect development and gain in everything we do. Car manufacturers exploit this mercilessly and are very successful because of it. As much as I admire the F18 class, if a better class emerges that will carry the same crew, is more modern, less weight, starts winning races and pushed by the major manufacturers ( particulalry if it was selected as the Olympic boat ) then it will be only a matter of time before the F18's are losing cliental to both the F16's and the new F17.5's | | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#243730
02/09/12 05:58 AM 02/09/12 05:58 AM |
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Posts: 554
Boston, Ma Jeff.Dusek
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Boston, Ma | Went for a sail today on NED 20, Infusion MKII. The new Nacra 17 was out testing and getting some photos in a nice SW around 13-15 knts. At least from what I saw today, the boat is a rocket. Upwind the boat seemed as high and slightly faster, downwind it looked to be flying. We saw one big porpoise event, the crew seemed to be all smiles back at the club. I am impressed.
USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#243732
02/09/12 07:22 AM 02/09/12 07:22 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Sebring, Florida. | Nice picts. thanks for sharing!
One question; I see they have the windward board way up, going upwind.
Is this 'normal' when going upwind on a cat with curved daggers? Or were they just playing with it, to see what would happen, etc.?
It would suck for the crew to have to pull up one board, and push the other one down, on every tack!
JW? Where's the Crew Contract? I'm pretty sure pulling/pushing boards on every tack isn't in there! We're going to need some "Overtime" pay if that's going to be the new norm. I say we make the skipper snuff the spinny, just to get even.
Blade F16
#777
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: TEAMVMG]
#243733
02/09/12 07:50 AM 02/09/12 07:50 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina Jake
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South Carolina | For years now, the room for developement in the F18 rule has meant that each new generation of F18 designs has got faster and faster until they outperform supposedly faster boats like iF20s and Tornados.
The time has now come when the F18 rule is holding their developement back when compared to newer designs like this N17. This isn't a problem, its just that we need to accept that F18s aren't going to be getting so far up in the long distance races any more.
The F18 rule works - its the best racing across the world. Having been an early adopter F18 sailor...let's not forget that sail development played a large role early on with the performance increase of the F18. The platforms evolve regularly but I think the biggest performance gains on the F18 from beginning to now are simply mast and sail configurations.
Jake Kohl
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: waynemarlow]
#243734
02/09/12 07:51 AM 02/09/12 07:51 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina Jake
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South Carolina | There's a fair amount of chatter regarding the "outdated and not modern anymore" F18 class. Because that is how the physchy of modern man is, we expect development and gain in everything we do. Car manufacturers exploit this mercilessly and are very successful because of it. As much as I admire the F18 class, if a better class emerges that will carry the same crew, is more modern, less weight, starts winning races and pushed by the major manufacturers ( particulalry if it was selected as the Olympic boat ) then it will be only a matter of time before the F18's are losing cliental to both the F16's and the new F17.5's You forgot to mention the single most important factor...cost.
Jake Kohl
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: Gav F18]
#243735
02/09/12 08:17 AM 02/09/12 08:17 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Roanoke Island ,N.C. | There's a fair amount of chatter regarding the "outdated and not modern anymore" F18 class. Why?
- Because it doesn't have curved boards - which will add significantly to the cost and increase the reliance on equipment for speed.
- Because it doesn't have a carbon mast - which will add significantly to the cost and increase the reliance on equipment for speed.
- Because min weight it too high - which means the boats are bullet proof and last a very long time.
Accessibility, performance and reward for skill over equipment - F18 still offers the best racing of any off the beach boat, monohulls included. The formula is very good and the only thing to be achieve by "modernising" the class rules it to increase the price for no real benefit to the sailor - it will only make the performance gap larger between those who can afford carbon, curved boards and those that can't.
H16's are so popular because their racing is so good. F18's are popular for the exact same reason. Show some respect to the successful classes and what they've achieved for multihull sailing. If you want the fastest or "most modern" go get yourself a 18HT (they're everywhere right???) or an A-class and blow your cash is 6 months.
N17 does look good as a one design. I can't see why'd they'd be interested in starting a formula class for it.
Who know's how much the 17's going cost??????????? My guess is US$32-$35k. Glad to hear the A class isn't a successful class. 
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
| | |  Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: Jake]
#243736
02/09/12 08:18 AM 02/09/12 08:18 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk TEAMVMG
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uk |
Having been an early adopter F18 sailor...
Sorry, I thought you were from the US!!! 
Paul
teamvmg.weebly.com
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#243737
02/09/12 09:16 AM 02/09/12 09:16 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Sebring, Florida. | And...what about that windward board up? Is that 'normal' going upwind on a curved board cat?
Hey A cat guys, do you sail upwind like that?
Blade F16
#777
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#243740
02/09/12 09:35 AM 02/09/12 09:35 AM |
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD samc99us
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Solomon's Island, MD | All the pictures of the A's I've seen have them leaving both boards in the water most of the time, too much work for the crew otherwise.
As to the F17/F20c, I'm pretty sure things are still getting dialed in. IMO, never sailing one of these boat before, but I'm sure those huge boards on the F17 provide more lift going upwind in light-moderate chop than what you reall need. Excess lift=excess drag.
Scorpion F18
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