Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 8 of 14 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 13 14
Re: Rules changes [Re: franck] #245045
03/01/12 06:44 PM
03/01/12 06:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
old hand
macca  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
Originally Posted by franck

For info in the swiss link (http://tinyurl.com/7v3wxst) the race pack is included.



Err... NO! sorry, but the race pack is shown on the H20 website as a 1000 CHF option. So the total price for a race ready Nacra (no tax) is 18250 and that does not include any covers or rear hull stands.

If you really think that pant was never allowed, then how was a wood epoxy boat meant to be surface coated? It is very clear that you have no idea about how to build a boat, but perhaps you could ask someone with knowledge and get back to us all.


________________________
http://aus300.blogspot.com
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Rules changes [Re: Karl Funk] #245055
03/01/12 11:58 PM
03/01/12 11:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
J
Jeff.Dusek Offline
addict
Jeff.Dusek  Offline
addict
J

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
Originally Posted by Karl Funk
Franck -

As a non-"pro" I can tell you I have recently purchased my first F18. It is a 2007 Nacra Infusion. I plan on possibly buying another F18 next season. Undecided on the model.

Thanks to you I am actually thinking about not bothering with this class at all.

Perhaps it is no more than a language barrier - but NO ONE here is impressed with your rants. You are, as we say in my language, "digging a hole".

Cheers,
Karl Funk


Karl,

Ignore the fight, come sail with us and you will be happy you bought the boat!

-Jeff


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: Rules changes [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #245056
03/02/12 12:04 AM
03/02/12 12:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 36
G
Gav F18 Offline
newbie
Gav F18  Offline
newbie
G

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 36
I just can't believe the executive of the international F18 association is letting this sort of crap go on. Pretty disappointing really.

Surely Olivier et al could be putting a cap over all this and looking after the sailors. At least communicate the reasoning behind these decisions through a press release on their Facebook page and website.

Re: Rules changes [Re: macca] #245062
03/02/12 01:56 AM
03/02/12 01:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
F
franck Offline
member
franck  Offline
member
F

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by macca
Originally Posted by franck

For info in the swiss link (http://tinyurl.com/7v3wxst) the race pack is included.



Err... NO! sorry, but the race pack is shown on the H20 website as a 1000 CHF option. So the total price for a race ready Nacra (no tax) is 18250 and that does not include any covers or rear hull stands.

If you really think that pant was never allowed, then how was a wood epoxy boat meant to be surface coated? It is very clear that you have no idea about how to build a boat, but perhaps you could ask someone with knowledge and get back to us all.


For the race pack you're right it is not included.
So gel coated Nacra MK2 + race pack retailer pricelist = 17.290 euros + 1000 CHF (so 830 euros) = 18.020 euros ex tax. Phantom plain finish = 18.650 euros ex tax. Those are price list.

One more time F18 painted boat exists for year but that doesn't mean they were all allowed. Just refer to the 2002 class rules.

Some refurbish it's been always class legal, very few home made one shot and more recently Mattia, Windrush and Phantom.
Now the rule is clarified and confirmed by ISAF.

Thanks to that clarification existing and already certified boats can have now derogations (as some Shockwave have for corecell).

You should consider F18 isn't only a boat builder community.
You write: "if its more economical for us to use paint then we should be allowed to do so"
Is the core of this wrong attitude.

Andrew, that is pure wishfull thinking and a key point: builders money interest do not rule F18, for the moment.
F18 rule process involved TC (builders giving advices), WC (mostly F18 sailors elected by F18 sailors: making decisions) and ISAF (controling).

So if there is a doubt, what do you think of that (have a problem to answer ?):

There is a very simple way to prevent your today situation.
If you want to make F18 with a "brand new process" or service.
Just ask if the rules allow that before.
TC can answer, or if there is no consensus, WC can make a clarification.
It works ! And in this kind of move, you show respect to F18 community (builders and customers).


Re: Rules changes [Re: Gav F18] #245063
03/02/12 02:05 AM
03/02/12 02:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
F
franck Offline
member
franck  Offline
member
F

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by Gav F18
I just can't believe the executive of the international F18 association is letting this sort of crap go on. Pretty disappointing really.

Surely Olivier et al could be putting a cap over all this and looking after the sailors. At least communicate the reasoning behind these decisions through a press release on their Facebook page and website.


Hi Gav,

For the reasoning just read the last TC report it is quite clear: http://tinyurl.com/7u5gmhy

Indeed there is a very simple way to prevent this kind of situation.
If a buider want to make F18 with a "brand new process" or service.
The builder/sail maker ask if the rules allow that before.
TC can answer, or if there is no consensus, WC can make a clarification.
It works ! And this kind of move shows respect to F18 community (builders and sailors)

That's why I propose to complete a certificate of compliance from builders, given with the bill, before F18 certification that transform a 18 feet cats in Formula 18.

What do you think of that cap ?

Re: Rules changes [Re: franck] #245064
03/02/12 03:09 AM
03/02/12 03:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 36
G
Gav F18 Offline
newbie
Gav F18  Offline
newbie
G

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 36
Shut up Franck

Re: Rules changes [Re: Gav F18] #245065
03/02/12 03:18 AM
03/02/12 03:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
F
franck Offline
member
franck  Offline
member
F

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by Gav F18
Shut up Franck



I respond all your questions and remark.
That is a forum purpose.

So why you cannot answer ?



Re: Rules changes [Re: Sloansailing] #245070
03/02/12 05:38 AM
03/02/12 05:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
C2 Mike Offline
enthusiast
C2 Mike  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
Oh ffs - who cares??? What's wrong with allowing prescribed coating methods - gelcoat + 2k, acrylic, whatever specified paint and let the market decide from there?? Just allow what is readily and economically commercially available. Who cares if one is faster than the other - within 3 years the market will even out and that's what all hulls will be coated with (if there is an actual advantage which I suspect would be minimal all round).

Tiger Mike
(now on a c2 - how does one change their name here anyway???)

Re: Rules changes [Re: Sloansailing] #245072
03/02/12 05:40 AM
03/02/12 05:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
old hand
macca  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
Franck, as much as we would all like you to shut up... How about you use your big boy words to answer the very simple question that has been asked several times:-

How did the class expect wood-epoxy boats to be surface coated?

(good luck with the answer)

best regards,

Andrew


________________________
http://aus300.blogspot.com
Re: Rules changes [Re: C2 Mike] #245076
03/02/12 07:18 AM
03/02/12 07:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 36
G
Gav F18 Offline
newbie
Gav F18  Offline
newbie
G

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by TigerMike
Oh ffs - who cares??? What's wrong with allowing prescribed coating methods - gelcoat + 2k, acrylic, whatever specified paint and let the market decide from there?? Just allow what is readily and economically commercially available. Who cares if one is faster than the other - within 3 years the market will even out and that's what all hulls will be coated with (if there is an actual advantage which I suspect would be minimal all round).

Tiger Mike
(now on a c2 - how does one change their name here anyway???)


You probably want to change your Avatar too http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/icons/default/smile.gif
I went from a Tiger to a C2 as well - it's awesome isn't it....

I like Macca's question. I wish someone from high up in the F18 executive could give a reasonable answer. Our mate Franck just keeps copying and pasting. I don't think he's answered a specific question yet.

Re: Rules changes [Re: Karl Funk] #245097
03/02/12 10:07 AM
03/02/12 10:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172
Anacortes
Sloansailing Offline OP
member
Sloansailing  Offline OP
member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172
Anacortes
Originally Posted by Karl Funk
Franck -

As a non-"pro" I can tell you I have recently purchased my first F18. It is a 2007 Nacra Infusion. I plan on possibly buying another F18 next season. Undecided on the model.

Thanks to you I am actually thinking about not bothering with this class at all.

Perhaps it is no more than a language barrier - but NO ONE here is impressed with your rants. You are, as we say in my language, "digging a hole".

Cheers,
Karl Funk


Karl stop being a drama queen! smile Go sail your boat!


Anacortes Rigging.com
Rigging and Yacht Services
Re: Rules changes [Re: macca] #245107
03/02/12 11:19 AM
03/02/12 11:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
F
franck Offline
member
franck  Offline
member
F

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by macca
Franck, as much as we would all like you to shut up... How about you use your big boy words to answer the very simple question that has been asked several times:-

How did the class expect wood-epoxy boats to be surface coated?

(good luck with the answer)

best regards,

Andrew



You should know that 10 satisfied people make less noise than one unsatisfied.

I'm so sorry that you THE expert doesn't understand that the response you're waiting for is in the question you don not want to answer.

There is a very simple way to prevent your today situation.
If you want to make F18 with a "brand new process" or service.
Just ask if the rules allow that before.
TC can answer, or if there is no consensus, WC can make a clarification.
It works ! And in this kind of move, you show respect to F18 community

For buiding wood-epoxy boats, the right way would have been to ask for clarification before.

For a complementary answer I quote one comment from an excellent blog, a guy who ask you to grow up, it's not very smooth but the last phrase is so right cool

"Max Catsailor said...

So for nearly 20 years every F18 sailor and builder has been wrong!?! Grow up Macca, you sound like a cheap lawyer!

If everybody else got the meaning, but you didn't, then surely the class just asks ISAF to correct an error in the text - no big deal. It all just depends on what was intended when the rules were written. What do the class say that the rules are supposed to mean?

After all, if you listen to every idiot who finds a loop hole then why bother with class rules!"

Re: Rules changes [Re: Gav F18] #245109
03/02/12 11:25 AM
03/02/12 11:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
F
franck Offline
member
franck  Offline
member
F

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by Gav F18


I like Macca's question. I wish someone from high up in the F18 executive could give a reasonable answer. Our mate Franck just keeps copying and pasting. I don't think he's answered a specific question yet.


Gav,
I just make the response to Macca (a post before), simply kidding, the answer was in the question he does not want to answer wink



Re: Rules changes [Re: Sloansailing] #245117
03/02/12 12:01 PM
03/02/12 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
old hand
macca  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
Franck, You are Max catsailor from martin's site. You took that ID on after you were banned.

Now, the question asked was simple enough, so you could do us the courtesy of answering it rather than more copy and paste crap.

There is no clarification needed for building boats in wood epoxy, it is clearly allowed in the class rules and has been since the very first edition of the rules. My question to you is this:- how is a wood epoxy boat going to be surface coated if paint is not allowed?

I don't expect you to like the answer, but you could at least give it a shot.


________________________
http://aus300.blogspot.com
Re: Rules changes [Re: macca] #245120
03/02/12 12:24 PM
03/02/12 12:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
F
franck Offline
member
franck  Offline
member
F

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by macca
Franck, You are Max catsailor from martin's site. You took that ID on after you were banned.

Now, the question asked was simple enough, so you could do us the courtesy of answering it rather than more copy and paste crap.

There is no clarification needed for building boats in wood epoxy, it is clearly allowed in the class rules and has been since the very first edition of the rules. My question to you is this:- how is a wood epoxy boat going to be surface coated if paint is not allowed?

I don't expect you to like the answer, but you could at least give it a shot.


So sorry Im' not Max catsailor, believe it or not I do not care, but I think is a smart guy.

Today's martin post was a very funny moment. He should ban all the guys who vote HC16 laugh

More seriously I'm so happy to help you in this very technical issue.

Obviously the clarification to ask was not upon wood epoxy. You're right to point this out.
May be ask your grandmother to be sure, I'm not qualified enough.

For me a serious technician (and respectful for F18 class rules and community) would have ask how to finish wood epoxy boat in order to respect the rule.
That would have been very intelligent and positive.

You see the big picture now ?

We can stop now boring people (most of them do not care), it was very funny, thank you Andrew.

Re: Rules changes [Re: Sloansailing] #245121
03/02/12 12:45 PM
03/02/12 12:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
old hand
macca  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
Franck, You just cant bring yourself to answer the question can you?

We know you don't like the answer, but the reality is that it proves my (and everyone else in here's) point about painted hulls and the class rules.



________________________
http://aus300.blogspot.com
Re: Rules changes [Re: macca] #245123
03/02/12 01:16 PM
03/02/12 01:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
F
franck Offline
member
franck  Offline
member
F

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
Andrew,

again my response you do not want to see:

For me a serious technician (and respectful for F18 class rules and community) would have ask IF18CA how to finish wood epoxy boat in order to respect the rule.
That would have been very intelligent and positive.

Please find below a perfect summary. The last phrase is another answer.


"Max Catsailor said...

So for nearly 20 years every F18 sailor and builder has been wrong!?! Grow up Macca, you sound like a cheap lawyer!

If everybody else got the meaning, but you didn't, then surely the class just asks ISAF to correct an error in the text - no big deal. It all just depends on what was intended when the rules were written. What do the class say that the rules are supposed to mean?

After all, if you listen to every idiot who finds a loop hole then why bother with class rules!"



Two answers are enough for you to understand ?





Re: Rules changes [Re: Sloansailing] #245124
03/02/12 01:20 PM
03/02/12 01:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
old hand
macca  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
Franck,

We understand.. You are unable to answer the question without completely shooting all your arguments in the foot.

The cut and paste routine is getting boring now, so how about you run along somewhere else now.



________________________
http://aus300.blogspot.com
Re: Rules changes [Re: macca] #245126
03/02/12 01:28 PM
03/02/12 01:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
old hand
ksurfer2  Offline
old hand
K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
For the love of God.....how long is this going to go on for?!?!?!


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: Rules changes [Re: franck] #245128
03/02/12 01:31 PM
03/02/12 01:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline
addict
Kris Hathaway  Offline
addict

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Nearly every hands on beach cat sailor knows that you cannot apply gel-coat over epoxy.... Is that the answer because the grandmother in the West Marine store would be lying to me then.

If that is the case, the recent gel-coat clarification makes the rule contradictory. At least before, they were ambiguous relative to "paint".



Kris Hathaway
Page 8 of 14 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 13 14

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 24 guests, and 76 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
bmcmurr3, sdm27, CanadaMetal, Jamil, Maistrello
8113 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,391
Posts267,029
Members8,113
Most Online1,650
Sep 10th, 2019
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1