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Endurance Series Input Needed #244989
02/29/12 09:50 PM
02/29/12 09:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline OP
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline OP
old hand

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Looking at shaking things up a bit and would like some input.

Rule Change:
Scoring two day events for each day. How many drops?

Macho Man (March 24):
Has been added to the series this year. Should we score Macho and Mini Macho.

Islander Reef Run:
Who is interested in attending? Because of poor attendance the last few years, Warren is debating on whether to have it this year.

Event Insurance:
How important is event insurance to the sailors and would any other events outside the Endurance Series be interested?
Sail Series is considering getting a policy to use for races under it's umbrella and possibly other events. By sharing the cost of the initial policy, it would make it more affordable for the events and create stability among events.

Tracking:
How important is this to both the competitors, spectators and sponsors? The development deal I had worked out with TrackLeaders ran out. They are giving me a good deal but I can't foot the bill.

Sponsorship:
Currently the series and most of the events have no real sponsorship. I have been really tied up with work and the economy has been terrible. If anyone has any sponsorship ideas, feel free to pass information along. I have printed material and some good ideas how to improve the series. Just need sponsorship to make things happen. First on the list would be tracking.

Volunteers:
At one point, I would like to start racing my boat again but I would need some help with the series to make that happen. If I can get a few people to each do one item, it would help the series, the events and give the teams exposure. The long term goal is to get sponsorship to actually pay people but the short term reality is that we are at least a year away from that happening. If anyone attends races as ground crew and wants to help, anyone follows the race on the internet or would like to help out at an event, let me know. There are small jobs that can be done even if you are not at the events. Top of the list would be someone to write media releases which can be done from video reports, phone calls and background knowledge. Another major one would be scoring points.

Future of Sailing:
These are hard times and endurance racing has been hit hardest because of the logistics, amount of money and amount of energy that goes into getting ready for one of these events. We have already lost the Tybee 500 and are at risk losing the Islander Reef Run.

I have other lofty plans but without getting the Endurance Series on stable footing, it would just dilute my efforts. Any constructive input would be appreciated.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: cyberspeed] #245009
03/01/12 08:46 AM
03/01/12 08:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Rule Change:
Scoring two day events for each day. How many drops?

I can go either way on the scoring. As for the drop, keep the structure the same and add more races to the event schedule.

Macho Man (March 24):
Has been added to the series this year. Should we score Macho and Mini Macho.

Sure why not.

Islander Reef Run:
Who is interested in attending? Because of poor attendance the last few years, Warren is debating on whether to have it this year.

Realistically this one is never on the radar for me. I have limited time and $$ and it never seems to make the cut.

Event Insurance:
How important is event insurance to the sailors and would any other events outside the Endurance Series be interested?
Sail Series is considering getting a policy to use for races under it's umbrella and possibly other events. By sharing the cost of the initial policy, it would make it more affordable for the events and create stability among events.

Most clubs, even paper clubs carry their own policy and those that don't probably wouldn't pay to be part of the group policy that only covers one regatta on their schedule. As far as my local club goes, we would not be interested we have recently partnered with our local yacht club to address our sky rocketing insurance costs.


Tracking:
How important is this to both the competitors, spectators and sponsors? The development deal I had worked out with TrackLeaders ran out. They are giving me a good deal but I can't foot the bill.

I like the tracking and we have addressed this need by installing a tracking app on our smart phones. As for paying a fee for the tracker, unless the entire fleet uses a tracker and we can playback all the tracks it's really not that interesting or worthwhile, IMO.

Sponsorship:
Currently the series and most of the events have no real sponsorship. I have been really tied up with work and the economy has been terrible. If anyone has any sponsorship ideas, feel free to pass information along. I have printed material and some good ideas how to improve the series. Just need sponsorship to make things happen. First on the list would be tracking.

Unfortunately if I have any leads on sponsorship I will selfishly use it for myself, fleet or club.

Volunteers:
At one point, I would like to start racing my boat again but I would need some help with the series to make that happen. If I can get a few people to each do one item, it would help the series, the events and give the teams exposure. The long term goal is to get sponsorship to actually pay people but the short term reality is that we are at least a year away from that happening. If anyone attends races as ground crew and wants to help, anyone follows the race on the internet or would like to help out at an event, let me know. There are small jobs that can be done even if you are not at the events. Top of the list would be someone to write media releases which can be done from video reports, phone calls and background knowledge. Another major one would be scoring points.

I'd be willing to help with almost anything pre and post event but, if I have the time and money to attend an event I'm sailing so I wouldn't be interested in working it. As for team promotion, is that really necessary? It looks like most of the teams cracked the self promotion nut a long time ago.

Future of Sailing:
These are hard times and endurance racing has been hit hardest because of the logistics, amount of money and amount of energy that goes into getting ready for one of these events. We have already lost the Tybee 500 and are at risk losing the Islander Reef Run.

Like everything else interest in distance racing will ebb and flow. It is true distance racing has waned a bit in FL but there are several classes that are currently enjoying stronger participation in the buoy arena. So to say that sailing has fallen hard times is a bit inaccurate.

As for getting paid staffers to promote and maintain the series, in my opinion sailing simply doesn't carry the interest to make this feasible. I also have a great deal of doubt that paid staffers actually bring any value to the game at all.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: David Ingram] #245010
03/01/12 10:22 AM
03/01/12 10:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
is there a need for a "series" with separate scoring and awards?

I like pickle dishes as much as the next guy (and look forward to winning the Naples Beach Boatless Sail Series) but not sure to what end all the work you have to put in organizing and running this series will accomplish.

Many of these distance events you selected for the series are notable on a stand alone basis.

Maybe if I understood the big picture and motives, I'd be more likely to whine about not having a boat to attend with... or beg to get on someone else's boat to sail them.


Jay

Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245012
03/01/12 10:38 AM
03/01/12 10:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Quote
is there a need for a "series" with separate scoring and awards?


Good question...

How important is a high point series to your sailing?

IMO... high point scores have a bit of interest for the top 2 sailors...
The real value of high point is that the standings set out the pecking order and therefore creates a ladder that you can climb... opponent by opponent.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: cyberspeed] #245118
03/02/12 11:13 AM
03/02/12 11:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline OP
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline OP
old hand

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Dave, what tracking app are you using? Always interested in new technology.

I will respond to the posts when I get a break from work. Thanks for the rest of the feedback and keep it coming.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: cyberspeed] #245119
03/02/12 11:24 AM
03/02/12 11:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by cyberspeed
Dave, what tracking app are you using? Always interested in new technology.

I will respond to the posts when I get a break from work. Thanks for the rest of the feedback and keep it coming.


https://market.android.com/details?...bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5mc3AuYW5kcm9pZC5jIl0.

It doesn't have a playback feature like the SPOT. I really use it so Kathy can keep track of us when we are doing a distance race.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: David Ingram] #245134
03/02/12 01:00 PM
03/02/12 01:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
veteran
tback  Offline
veteran

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by cyberspeed
Dave, what tracking app are you using? Always interested in new technology.

I will respond to the posts when I get a break from work. Thanks for the rest of the feedback and keep it coming.


https://market.android.com/details?...bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5mc3AuYW5kcm9pZC5jIl0.

It doesn't have a playback feature like the SPOT. I really use it so Kathy can keep track of us when we are doing a distance race.


and your Android phone battery lasts for that long in an endurance event?


USA 777
Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: tback] #245138
03/02/12 01:32 PM
03/02/12 01:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
I used it for the Steeplechase last year and it wasn't a problem even with GPS mode turned on. Now for something like the RTI it probably wouldn't make it. When you turn off GPS mode battery life is not an issue. It's not as accurate using cell towers but for what we're using it for it doesn't need to be.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: David Ingram] #245155
03/02/12 04:01 PM
03/02/12 04:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
+1

I've used this for Macho and it worked reasonably well. Had a few hiccups with the system updating in timely fashion, but can't really bash it because I am using the free version.

So momma can't trust you either, eh Ding?


Jay

Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245158
03/02/12 04:34 PM
03/02/12 04:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
+1

I've used this for Macho and it worked reasonably well. Had a few hiccups with the system updating in timely fashion, but can't really bash it because I am using the free version.

So momma can't trust you either, eh Ding?


Yeah, when I say I'm going to the nudie bar she wants to make sure I'm at the low rent club. Nothing pisser her off more than when I over pay to look at naked ladies.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: David Ingram] #245186
03/03/12 08:46 AM
03/03/12 08:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
Just for the sake of history, Dave Calvert and I came up with the Keys 100 many moons ago that started at Upper Keys Sailing Club in Key Largo, had a first stop a Marathon, and final leg to Smathers Beach in Key West. Hogsbreath used to sponsor it until they hired a new manager.
The event had excellent turnout. Lesley Saunders (Fumat) ran the event awesomely to the extreme. Never forget on one of them she was on the finish boat just off the beach scoring. The boat started taking on water and sinking, finally rolled upside down. Meanwhile, Lesley never flinched as she sat on the turtled power boat and kept on scoring.
When Calvert left the Keys, there was really no one to take charge of the event. I had my plate already full with the Wave Nationals, Steeplechase and Tradewinds.
That was when Warren took on the burden, but instead of using the original course, he wanted to use Dennis' beach in Islamorada. I think that was when the event started to decline.
Too bad. The original course was just about perfect.., a spinnaker sleigh ride for 100 miles.
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: cyberspeed] #245196
03/03/12 03:47 PM
03/03/12 03:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline
addict
TheManShed  Offline
addict

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
Even though I currently do not have a boat that can compete in these types of races, my hat is off to Craig.

I know he puts a lot of time and money into the series and often we need to just take a minute to say THANKS!

In the future I’d like to race the TMS-20 in the series…now back to work on the boat.

Keep up the good work Craig!

Also a thanks to Rick and Mary for this forum!

Last edited by TheManShed; 03/03/12 03:51 PM. Reason: Thanks to Rick

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: David Ingram] #245218
03/05/12 08:31 AM
03/05/12 08:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by David Ingram

Yeah, when I say I'm going to the nudie bar she wants to make sure I'm at the low rent club. Nothing pisser her off more than when I over pay to look at naked ladies.


Ah.. words of wisdom to live by. Speak more of this, sense...


Jay

Re: Endurance Series Input Needed [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245219
03/05/12 08:35 AM
03/05/12 08:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Are we seeking to limit the boat type/sizes? That would seem to limit participation. Why not open it up to anything over 15' 11" with at least two crew?

I like the Ft. Lauderdale / Key West and Mug races because they are a veritable cornucopa of sailing craft. Probably stinks to be RC or PRO with all the various classes/handicaps, but I'm just sayin....


Jay


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