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TMS-20 update #245287
03/06/12 02:55 PM
03/06/12 02:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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TheManShed  Offline OP
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Update from the Man Shed. It has been awhile since Iíve posted an update. Work on the TMS-20 has been slow the last year. Iíve been busy with a few large projects at work and family. I have 6 weeks left in the states then Iíll be back in the Mediterranean again for 2 month working on a new cruise ship in Italy the Carnival Breeze. Most of the work and planning is complete and everything will be shipped by the end of the week, then a trade show next week and Iíll have a bit of breather time before I leave. I hope to slide in some vacation time in before I leave. So far the rest of the year looks slow so I can catch up on the boat. Thatís the plan anyways.
Iíd like to get the outside skin on the hull before I leave. Iím in the final faring stages of the hull seems like it has taken forever. Iíve been working on some issues with the vacuum pump system by adding a cut-out switch and will be using breather cloth in the bagging process. I hope I can catch some good weather before rainy season starts. Iíve been thinking about setting up a webcam in the shop now that Iíve got internet back to the building. More on that once it is set-up. I figure some would like see the madness of a bag-out.
Just one pic to share. LaterÖ.
Mike

Attached Files
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Bottom of Hull
Last edited by TheManShed; 03/07/12 11:45 AM. Reason: spelling

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: TMS-20 update [Re: TheManShed] #245291
03/06/12 04:19 PM
03/06/12 04:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by TheManShed
Update from the Man Shed. It has been awhile since Iíve posted an update. Work on the TMS-20 has been slow the last year. Iíve been busy with a few large projects at work and family. I have 6 weeks left in the states then Iíll be back in the Mediterranean again for 2 month working on a new cruise ship in Italy the Carnival Breeze. Most of the work and planning is complete and everything will be shipped by the end of the week, then a trade show next week and Iíll have a bit of breather time before I leave. I hope to slide in some vacation time in before I leave. So far the rest of the year looks slow so I can catch up on the boat. Thatís the plan anyways.
Iíd like to get the outside skin on the hull before I leave. Iím in the final faring stages of the hull seems like it has taken forever. Iíve been working on some issues with the vacuum pump system by adding a cut-out switch and will be using breather cloth in the bagging process. I hope I can catch some good weather before rainy season starts. Iíve been thinking about setting up a webcam in the shop now that Iíve got internet back to the building. More on that once it is set-up. I figure some would like see the madness of a bag-out.
Just on pic to share. LaterÖ.
Mike


If you are getting that limit switch from the veneer supply place, I had problems running 110V through it with contact bounce. It would cycle madly at it's setpoint for about 4 seconds causing my pump relay to also cycle madly (sending fits of voltage to the pump motor). I added a PLC to the system to debounce the sensor but converted the sensor to 12VDC operation since it was simpler with the PLC - it didn't bounce any more with DC voltage...you may need to consider that if you are using the same sensor.


Jake Kohl
Re: TMS-20 update [Re: Jake] #245292
03/06/12 04:33 PM
03/06/12 04:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
old hand
ksurfer2  Offline
old hand
K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by TheManShed
Update from the Man Shed. It has been awhile since Iíve posted an update. Work on the TMS-20 has been slow the last year. Iíve been busy with a few large projects at work and family. I have 6 weeks left in the states then Iíll be back in the Mediterranean again for 2 month working on a new cruise ship in Italy the Carnival Breeze. Most of the work and planning is complete and everything will be shipped by the end of the week, then a trade show next week and Iíll have a bit of breather time before I leave. I hope to slide in some vacation time in before I leave. So far the rest of the year looks slow so I can catch up on the boat. Thatís the plan anyways.
Iíd like to get the outside skin on the hull before I leave. Iím in the final faring stages of the hull seems like it has taken forever. Iíve been working on some issues with the vacuum pump system by adding a cut-out switch and will be using breather cloth in the bagging process. I hope I can catch some good weather before rainy season starts. Iíve been thinking about setting up a webcam in the shop now that Iíve got internet back to the building. More on that once it is set-up. I figure some would like see the madness of a bag-out.
Just on pic to share. LaterÖ.
Mike


If you are getting that limit switch from the veneer supply place, I had problems running 110V through it with contact bounce. It would cycle madly at it's setpoint for about 4 seconds causing my pump relay to also cycle madly (sending fits of voltage to the pump motor). I added a PLC to the system to debounce the sensor but converted the sensor to 12VDC operation since it was simpler with the PLC - it didn't bounce any more with DC voltage...you may need to consider that if you are using the same sensor.


How can anyone who is this smart sail across a lake in his PJ's with his beach wheels dragging behind his boat?


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: TMS-20 update [Re: TheManShed] #245293
03/06/12 04:54 PM
03/06/12 04:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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TheManShed  Offline OP
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I bought the switch and relay from ACP Composites. I'll let you know how it works.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update [Re: ksurfer2] #245294
03/06/12 04:54 PM
03/06/12 04:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
easy....RUM


Jay

Re: TMS-20 update [Re: ksurfer2] #245295
03/06/12 05:52 PM
03/06/12 05:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by ksurfer2
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by TheManShed
Update from the Man Shed. It has been awhile since Iíve posted an update. Work on the TMS-20 has been slow the last year. Iíve been busy with a few large projects at work and family. I have 6 weeks left in the states then Iíll be back in the Mediterranean again for 2 month working on a new cruise ship in Italy the Carnival Breeze. Most of the work and planning is complete and everything will be shipped by the end of the week, then a trade show next week and Iíll have a bit of breather time before I leave. I hope to slide in some vacation time in before I leave. So far the rest of the year looks slow so I can catch up on the boat. Thatís the plan anyways.
Iíd like to get the outside skin on the hull before I leave. Iím in the final faring stages of the hull seems like it has taken forever. Iíve been working on some issues with the vacuum pump system by adding a cut-out switch and will be using breather cloth in the bagging process. I hope I can catch some good weather before rainy season starts. Iíve been thinking about setting up a webcam in the shop now that Iíve got internet back to the building. More on that once it is set-up. I figure some would like see the madness of a bag-out.
Just on pic to share. LaterÖ.
Mike


If you are getting that limit switch from the veneer supply place, I had problems running 110V through it with contact bounce. It would cycle madly at it's setpoint for about 4 seconds causing my pump relay to also cycle madly (sending fits of voltage to the pump motor). I added a PLC to the system to debounce the sensor but converted the sensor to 12VDC operation since it was simpler with the PLC - it didn't bounce any more with DC voltage...you may need to consider that if you are using the same sensor.


How can anyone who is this smart sail across a lake in his PJ's with his beach wheels dragging behind his boat?

And the plugs out.
CLASSIC!!!


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: TMS-20 update [Re: ksurfer2] #245296
03/06/12 07:08 PM
03/06/12 07:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
hey, even Einstein had his moments! grin


Jake Kohl
Re: TMS-20 update [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245300
03/06/12 10:35 PM
03/06/12 10:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
easy....RUM

Just as gin makes a man mean, rum makes a man stupid.

We won't talk about what tequila does to women.

Re: TMS-20 update [Re: TheManShed] #245306
03/07/12 07:13 AM
03/07/12 07:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 431
Netherlands
DennisMe Offline
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DennisMe  Offline
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Netherlands
<quote>How can anyone who is this smart sail across a lake in his PJ's with his beach wheels dragging behind his boat?

And the plugs out.</quote>

Fits the mad scientist profile perfectly!

Re: TMS-20 update [Re: TheManShed] #245309
03/07/12 10:06 AM
03/07/12 10:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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TheManShed  Offline OP
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Palm Beach County
Portsmith rating on this is.........


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update [Re: TheManShed] #245311
03/07/12 10:59 AM
03/07/12 10:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by TheManShed
Portsmith rating on this is.........


Yeah, that's right! I should get a modifier for towing beach wheels.


Jake Kohl
Re: TMS-20 update [Re: TheManShed] #245313
03/07/12 11:41 AM
03/07/12 11:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Palm Beach County
Jake can you tell me more about the knock down and PLC you made for the pressure switch?


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update [Re: TheManShed] #245315
03/07/12 01:07 PM
03/07/12 01:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I had a PLC laying around (Allen-Bradley Micrologix 1500)...but you can get them on ebay for around $100 to $150 used (they just went obsolete so prices may be skyrocketing). The AB programming software is expensive so I wouldn't do that unless I had work access to it (fortunately, in this case, I do). There are other affordable PLCs that come with free programming software. As I said earlier, my intent was only to debounce the limit switch with some logic so it would have to reach a steady state for a few seconds before the PLC would turn off the pump. It migrated from there into a completely overthunk, overdone piece of hardware - but it works great. I later put in some sequencing for the restart of the pump (so it wouldn't have any vacuum on it's input when it started to prolong the health of the pump) and I setup a series of 4 switches that I could use as a timer so I could have the pump quit cycling after some period (after I had gone to bed or work, etc.).

For the vacuum stage sequencing, I installed a smaller reservoir (1.5" PVC about 8 inches long) on the input side of a three-way Mac pneumatic valve (110v). My vacuum pump intake is tee-d into this smaller reservoir. On the other side of the Mac valve is the primary vacuum reservoir that consists of three linked lengths of 6" PVC tubing (and the adjustable vacuum limit switch). The Mac valve switches between venting the smaller reservoir to the atmosphere (through a very fine and restricive brass bead filter) and connecting the small reservoir to the big one. When the pump is turned off and the Mac valve disengaged, the small reservoir takes about 20 or 30 seconds to vent through the restrictive filter on the intake of the mac valve. When the limit switch sets the demand for more vacuum, the PLC fires the pump relay. The pump starts but only initially sees the atmospheric condition in the small reservoir (instead of being hit instantly with the nearly full vacuum in the reservoir). After four seconds, the smaller chamber has reached a pretty significant level of vacuum (the brass filter doesn't let much air flow through) and then the PLC fires the Mac Valve to connect the small reservoir and the primary reservoir (bypassing the brass filter so everything is now sealed to the pump). The pump is now pulling both reservoirs down until the limit switch is satisfied and drops the demand signal to the PLC. On shut-down, the PLC disengages the mac valve to make sure the main reservoir is sealed and then the PLC turns off the pump about one second later. At this point, the smaller reservoir is slowly venting to the atmosphere so it's ready to start over again.

With the timer, I have 4 switches that set a binary timer. When the timer is active, I have an indicator light that flashes once a second. The indicator light also flashes very quickly when the demand switch has changed state to make it easier to adjust the limit switch for different vacuum settings (which I found to be important since the on and off sequence became complicated and is not instantaneously obvious). The switches tie into discrete PLC inputs and any change in state of any of the switches resets the timer to the new value. They're set as follows

0000 - no timer..pump cycling full-time on the limit switch as long as the unit is plugged in and has power.
0001 - 1 hour off delay
0010 - 2 hour off delay
0011 - 3 hour off delay
0100 - 4 hour off delay
0101 - 5 hour off delay
0111 - 6 hour off delay
1000 - and so on.....
....
1111 - the limit switch is ignored and the pump is engaged 100% of the time

And yes, this was absolute and complete over m-f'n kill...but this was back when I had time to play!


Jake Kohl
Re: TMS-20 update [Re: Jake] #245316
03/07/12 01:37 PM
03/07/12 01:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
oh yeah, and my pump relay also energizes a standard 110V outlet on the reservoir assembly so I can plug in a small desk-type fan that will cycle on and off with the pump to make sure the pump head stays cool if it's on a big (leaky) job where it will be running a lot (I've had some overheating issues in the past with it).


Jake Kohl
Re: TMS-20 update [Re: Jake] #245321
03/07/12 03:15 PM
03/07/12 03:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
and the flux capacitor is ... where?


Jay

Re: TMS-20 update [Re: TheManShed] #245322
03/07/12 03:43 PM
03/07/12 03:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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TheManShed  Offline OP
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Well Jake it sounds pretty complicated. I'll go with my set-up and see how it works. My computer and networking background is not ready for something as complex as PLC. Sounds very interesting though!
Were you using any Siemens controllers? Better check for the Stuxnet worm. I hear they were having a bit of a problem with that in Iran. What an amazing piece of engineering behind the Stuxnet worm. There is a good story about it in the New York Times on line.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update [Re: TheManShed] #245323
03/07/12 04:13 PM
03/07/12 04:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
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Originally Posted by TheManShed
Iíll be back in the Mediterranean again for 2 month working on a new cruise ship in Italy the Carnival Breeze. Mike

What od you do for work aboard the cruise ship?
Tom


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: TMS-20 update [Re: TheManShed] #245324
03/07/12 04:52 PM
03/07/12 04:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Palm Beach County
I work for a company that builds Inter Active TV systems. We are a systems integrator. We have software packages and we integrate with electronics including video servers, encoders, modulators, set top boxes, and tie all of this together along with the ships broadcast signals on-board and satellite signals add the electronics needed to make it all show up on the TVís and mobile devices if they purchase that part. We interact with the ships management system so you can check your balance, shop, and purchase movies. Also we have a casino module and our own system, using our App so you can use your cell phone without going through say Ma Bell so itís much cheaper. Almost everything that you can do on the TV you do from a mobile device with our new product. If you have been on one of the larger newer cruise ship most likely it had our system. So we do just about everything that makes the TV work except the TVís. Install servers, networking, electronics, software, and programming, make custom remotes, and install an electronic box in each cabin that connects to the TV. Then tune the signals from each of the components. We also will build custom software modules to customers specs.

Me personally I am the project lead once the contract is signed I take it from there ordering materials, logistics, manage the customer, manage travel, manage the project on-site, and get sign-off for the project.

Also Iím responsible for everything that goes wrong. The cool part is I usually get to go on the maiden voyages for a week or two to make sure everything is working properly.

Last edited by TheManShed; 03/07/12 05:05 PM.

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update [Re: Jake] #245325
03/07/12 06:01 PM
03/07/12 06:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by Jake
I had a PLC laying around (Allen-Bradley Micrologix 1500)...but you can get them on ebay for around $100 to $150 used (they just went obsolete so prices may be skyrocketing). The AB programming software is expensive so I wouldn't do that unless I had work access to it (fortunately, in this case, I do). There are other affordable PLCs that come with free programming software. As I said earlier, my intent was only to debounce the limit switch with some logic so it would have to reach a steady state for a few seconds before the PLC would turn off the pump. It migrated from there into a completely overthunk, overdone piece of hardware - but it works great. I later put in some sequencing for the restart of the pump (so it wouldn't have any vacuum on it's input when it started to prolong the health of the pump) and I setup a series of 4 switches that I could use as a timer so I could have the pump quit cycling after some period (after I had gone to bed or work, etc.).

For the vacuum stage sequencing, I installed a smaller reservoir (1.5" PVC about 8 inches long) on the input side of a three-way Mac pneumatic valve (110v). My vacuum pump intake is tee-d into this smaller reservoir. On the other side of the Mac valve is the primary vacuum reservoir that consists of three linked lengths of 6" PVC tubing (and the adjustable vacuum limit switch). The Mac valve switches between venting the smaller reservoir to the atmosphere (through a very fine and restricive brass bead filter) and connecting the small reservoir to the big one. When the pump is turned off and the Mac valve disengaged, the small reservoir takes about 20 or 30 seconds to vent through the restrictive filter on the intake of the mac valve. When the limit switch sets the demand for more vacuum, the PLC fires the pump relay. The pump starts but only initially sees the atmospheric condition in the small reservoir (instead of being hit instantly with the nearly full vacuum in the reservoir). After four seconds, the smaller chamber has reached a pretty significant level of vacuum (the brass filter doesn't let much air flow through) and then the PLC fires the Mac Valve to connect the small reservoir and the primary reservoir (bypassing the brass filter so everything is now sealed to the pump). The pump is now pulling both reservoirs down until the limit switch is satisfied and drops the demand signal to the PLC. On shut-down, the PLC disengages the mac valve to make sure the main reservoir is sealed and then the PLC turns off the pump about one second later. At this point, the smaller reservoir is slowly venting to the atmosphere so it's ready to start over again.

With the timer, I have 4 switches that set a binary timer. When the timer is active, I have an indicator light that flashes once a second. The indicator light also flashes very quickly when the demand switch has changed state to make it easier to adjust the limit switch for different vacuum settings (which I found to be important since the on and off sequence became complicated and is not instantaneously obvious). The switches tie into discrete PLC inputs and any change in state of any of the switches resets the timer to the new value. They're set as follows

0000 - no timer..pump cycling full-time on the limit switch as long as the unit is plugged in and has power.
0001 - 1 hour off delay
0010 - 2 hour off delay
0011 - 3 hour off delay
0100 - 4 hour off delay
0101 - 5 hour off delay
0111 - 6 hour off delay
1000 - and so on.....
....
1111 - the limit switch is ignored and the pump is engaged 100% of the time

And yes, this was absolute and complete over m-f'n kill...but this was back when I had time to play!


Remind me to punch you in the brain,the next time I see you.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: TMS-20 update [Re: TheManShed] #245338
03/08/12 06:12 AM
03/08/12 06:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
veteran
TEAMVMG  Offline
veteran

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
Are you going to have a clearcoat finish on the carbon?
that would explain why you have gone to all that filling and fairing effort before the final skin.


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
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