Announcements
New Discussions
Worrell 1000 Ground Crew Finder
by John Williams. 02/18/20 06:50 PM
9 foot inflatable boat
by AudreyGrace. 02/18/20 12:58 AM
Inflatable dinghy Canada
by AudreyGrace. 02/11/20 03:50 AM
Bringing back the cat
by dave mosley. 02/03/20 08:12 AM
Worrell 1000
by John Williams. 01/29/20 04:38 PM
F85SR Concept Boat
by phill. 01/29/20 03:44 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
A-cat masts #245362
03/08/12 03:23 PM
03/08/12 03:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Are they that fragile? Reading the SA article on the DIYC regatta, lots of masts broke during capsizes (one of my specialties).

Do they have a fast "beginner mast" that won't break the minute I do something stupid (which is about every other minute)?

Or do you have to be that good just to even get out to the start line?


Jay

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: A-cat masts [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245365
03/08/12 03:37 PM
03/08/12 03:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
old hand
mikekrantz  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
They're fragile. If you capsize with the downhaul on, there's a good chance the rig will break.

Think of it this way, stand on a soda can, and then place pressure on the side. As soon as there is outside pressure in conjunction with the compression - crunch!!!

Good news, is that they are relatively easy to fix.

Re: A-cat masts [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245378
03/09/12 09:01 AM
03/09/12 09:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
A Class masts are more fragile than say a Tornado mat but, they are still pretty strong.

Breaking an A Class mast normally has to do with the violence of a flip or pitch pole. The wind has to be too high or you have to do something to make the capsize extra violent.

Where you can get in trouble, is conditions you should not be out in in the first place. For example, turning downwind in 25+ and pitch poling(New Orleans a few years ago), you will likely break a mast. With 15-20 kt wind, you would have to do something stupid in addition to break a mast. Like jumping forward to to grab something. I have flipped and pitch poled many times in 10-12 by doing something extra stupid, with no breakage.



Re: A-cat masts [Re: carlbohannon] #245379
03/09/12 09:09 AM
03/09/12 09:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I second that - downhaul is what does it in if you pitchpole. You are really taking risks if you have downhaul on going downwind in sporty conditions. I don't know how the guys are sailing with these new mast/sail combos (and trapezing), but I usually don't have downhaul on when sailing downwind. My carbon mast (no repairs) turns 12 years old this year!


Jake Kohl
Re: A-cat masts [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245380
03/09/12 09:11 AM
03/09/12 09:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
old hand
mikekrantz  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
The three masts that broke had some extra help in breaking.

One boat flipped over and hit the beach
One boat flipped and got it's mast stuck in the bottom,
One boat it is suspected that the spreader bracket came loose from the mast.

Each of those situations could have resulted in a broken mast on a H16, N20, etc.

Re: A-cat masts [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245383
03/09/12 10:16 AM
03/09/12 10:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Shouldn't be out in over 25 knots? Really?

H16 masts rarely break from hitting the bottom. It's possible (and likely) to damage the comptip (usually just the track), but the mast itself can withstand a ridiculous amount of abuse.

Obviously, they're not as fast as an A-Cat, but you can survive (and some can race well) in winds over 20-25 knots.

Mike

Re: A-cat masts [Re: brucat] #245385
03/09/12 11:43 AM
03/09/12 11:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
addict
sail7seas  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
I had a violent double bow pitchpole on Biscayne Bay downwind near shore at the leeward mark in about ten feet of water on my F16.
The following weekend when I took the straight aluminum mast down for taillering I found compacted sand in the mast going for about a foot (30cm).
(mast has foam cap seal)

Re: A-cat masts [Re: mikekrantz] #245386
03/09/12 12:08 PM
03/09/12 12:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by mikekrantz
The three masts that broke had some extra help in breaking.

One boat flipped over and hit the beach
One boat flipped and got it's mast stuck in the bottom,
One boat it is suspected that the spreader bracket came loose from the mast.

Each of those situations could have resulted in a broken mast on a H16, N20, etc.


You can strike the N-20 from that list I've done all of those and the mast has survived so far.Of course there are telephone poles that are lighter than a Carbon N-20 mast.

@ Brucat, and sail7seas, Apples and oranges both of those boats have aluminum masts.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: A-cat masts [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #245387
03/09/12 12:17 PM
03/09/12 12:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by mikekrantz
The three masts that broke had some extra help in breaking.

One boat flipped over and hit the beach
One boat flipped and got it's mast stuck in the bottom,
One boat it is suspected that the spreader bracket came loose from the mast.

Each of those situations could have resulted in a broken mast on a H16, N20, etc.


You can strike the N-20 from that list I've done all of those and the mast has survived so far.Of course there are telephone poles that are lighter than a Carbon N-20 mast.



Yeah no kidding. It has to be the heaviest per foot carbon mast on the planet. On the upside it is very stupid friendly.



David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: A-cat masts [Re: David Ingram] #245392
03/09/12 01:41 PM
03/09/12 01:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
I'll put in a plug for the Bim 18HT mast. very strong and flexible.

Re: A-cat masts [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245394
03/09/12 01:42 PM
03/09/12 01:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
You guys should get Jody to tell his story from Charlotte Harbor. Definitely apropos.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: A-cat masts [Re: David Ingram] #245396
03/09/12 03:17 PM
03/09/12 03:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by mikekrantz
The three masts that broke had some extra help in breaking.

One boat flipped over and hit the beach
One boat flipped and got it's mast stuck in the bottom,
One boat it is suspected that the spreader bracket came loose from the mast.

Each of those situations could have resulted in a broken mast on a H16, N20, etc.


You can strike the N-20 from that list I've done all of those and the mast has survived so far.Of course there are telephone poles that are lighter than a Carbon N-20 mast.



Yeah no kidding. It has to be the heaviest per foot carbon mast on the planet. On the upside it is very stupid friendly.



AND one of the more expensive.


Jake Kohl
Re: A-cat masts [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245397
03/09/12 03:47 PM
03/09/12 03:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
"@ Brucat, and sail7seas, Apples and oranges both of those boats have aluminum masts."

I was responding to Krantz' mention of H16.

Of course, it doesn't really matter during a regatta. If you tweak the comptip, it's usually not sailable. Repairing it may cost less than replacing the whole mast, but your regatta is over, which really sucks if it's a week-long major event.

My other point was in regard to the notion that we shouldn't be sailing in over 25 knots of wind. That's just silly (granted, my wife and I won't go out in that anymore, but that doesn't mean no one should).

Mike

Re: A-cat masts [Re: Jake] #245401
03/09/12 10:04 PM
03/09/12 10:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by mikekrantz
The three masts that broke had some extra help in breaking.

One boat flipped over and hit the beach
One boat flipped and got it's mast stuck in the bottom,
One boat it is suspected that the spreader bracket came loose from the mast.

Each of those situations could have resulted in a broken mast on a H16, N20, etc.


You can strike the N-20 from that list I've done all of those and the mast has survived so far.Of course there are telephone poles that are lighter than a Carbon N-20 mast.



Yeah no kidding. It has to be the heaviest per foot carbon mast on the planet. On the upside it is very stupid friendly.



AND one of the more expensive.


Quick, someone find the pic of my mast in the bridge!

Re: A-cat masts [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245406
03/10/12 07:19 AM
03/10/12 07:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 69
L
Lost in Translation Offline
journeyman
Lost in Translation  Offline
journeyman
L

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 69
I want to see pics, Tad!

On the wind speed, the class has a limit of 22 knots sustained and that is because the boats are so responsive in lighter conditions. Sailing an A cat vs a Hobie 16 is a very different experience.

Re: A-cat masts [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245431
03/11/12 03:58 PM
03/11/12 03:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline
addict
TheManShed  Offline
addict

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
I did an A-Cat mast repair what a job! It broke where there was difference in the wall thickness around the spreaders. The step-down in thickness was a sudden drop not a tapper making a hard spot in the mast. To fix it I had to make two sleeves one to even out the inside walls then a sleeve to fix the break.

http://www.themanshed.net/archived-projects/acat-mast/?g2_itemId=1750

Last edited by TheManShed; 03/11/12 04:03 PM.

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: A-cat masts [Re: waterbug_wpb] #245432
03/11/12 05:13 PM
03/11/12 05:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
old hand
dacarls  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 805
Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
I may hold the A-cat carbon mast record for breakage as a carbon mast newbie-- and successful repair. 1. At 3 mph, I let the boat head up & hit a concrete bridge just above the mast base (2001): Inattention. 2. Violent Pitchpole at Lake Ponchartrain in A-cat NAs, same as #1 mast survived the crash but then the boat and boom jibed, sail did not: twisted the mast (2003). 3. Violent downwind pitchpole in nasty thunderstorm after mainsheet was ripped out of my hand in 3rd blast : mast broke instantly (2005). All 3 masts were repaired successfully and never broke there again: All 3 still in use, and 4 more that I repaired successfully. None busted by me since 2005. Fingers remain crossed.

Last edited by dacarls; 03/11/12 05:14 PM.

Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: A-cat masts [Re: mikekrantz] #245437
03/11/12 08:54 PM
03/11/12 08:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1
P
pinnichioss Offline
stranger
pinnichioss  Offline
stranger
P

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by mikekrantz
They're fragile. If you capsize with the downhaul on, there's a good chance the rig will break.



Thanks for your input. I did not know that! smile

Re: A-cat masts [Re: David Ingram] #245441
03/12/12 10:39 AM
03/12/12 10:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by David Ingram
very stupid friendly.




I will add this to my criteria for next boat/mast


Jay

Re: A-cat masts [Re: Lost in Translation] #245442
03/12/12 12:14 PM
03/12/12 12:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Originally Posted by Lost in Translation
I want to see pics, Tad!



Someone around here has the pic of when Kirk hit the bridge :P

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 29 guests, and 316 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
wgilmour, Jacob7876, Wozza, kvc0615, CaptainAhab
8007 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
phill 1
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,377
Posts266,974
Members8,007
Most Online1,650
Sep 10th, 2019
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1