Just wondering if anyone has any sources/suggestions for wheels/tires that work well for beach wheels. They need to be able to support a minimum of 200lb each and work on sand.

I'd like to make my own set because I can't stomach the idea of spending close to $500 for a new set of cat trax or $130 each for just the wheels. There's a motorcycle shop near me that has a used pair of ATV wheels for $70 total which I'll probably go look at, but ATV wheels would require that I make some type of hub to bolt up to the 4-bolt wheel pattern.

sm

Try shopping for 'wheeleze' maybe you can find a better price? maybe not.
http://www.wheeleez.com/beach-wheels-polyurethane.php

At $137 per wheel, the wheelez aren't any improvement. I actually have a set of wheels that use the wheelez and I'm not overly happy with them. They don't work well with my boat.

Anyway, I'm looking to make a cheap set of wheels that I can keep by my beach boat and don't have to worry about them getting legs.

sm

I've been down this road a number of times. Never quite got to building my own wheels, mostly because you can't find suitable tires for less than $130 each. I just forked over my >$500 for a new set of Cat Trax, simply because they are the only wheels I've used that work well each and every time, no matter the surface. Other beach wheels don't roll easily on soft sand, weigh more, and are easier to puncture.

Your problem however is one that I sympathize with. My boats live on the beach during the summer, which is a 5 minute walk from my house. In general, I'm not worried about stuff getting stolen, but it has happened, and given the current economy is more likely than in prevalent times. I've also had a set of beach wheels stolen or trashed at a different location (not a beach or waterfront for that matter). I doubt these new wheels will be spending time overnight on my beach. So I am relegated to carrying them back and forth, or moving them on the trailer, all of which is a huge pain I'd rather not deal with. The other solution is to lock them up, which I might do on a weekend. As to solving the alternative problem, PVC pipes work pretty well as surfaces to slide the boat on and are very inexpensive compared with wheels.

Look around the local lawn mower repair shops. Maybe you can find a trashed lawn tractor.

I have a trashed lawn mower you can have, but have to take the whole thing.

Where are you located? You can sometimes find used Cat Trax.

I might even have a spare set...

Mike

New Jersey.

I have not had any luck finding any used sets for less than about $250. I think I could probably make a decent pair that's good enough to drag my boat 50 yards across the sand for about 1/2 that price.

Right now I have to cart my current wheels with me to the beach each time I sail and it's a pain (especially because they don't work that well to begin with).

sm

I tried making a set out of ATV tires and rims and they worked OK, but always had problems. That was for my first boat when I was 24 and did not have much money. In the end I would have been better off buying a used or new set with the amount I had in the set I made it was not that much more to buy some Cat Trax.
I did buy some Cat Trax in 1996 which I still use today.

What was the problem with the ATV tires?

sm

Spend the money. They're essential, work reliably, and like Dave you'll find they last for years. Support a small sailing business.

I'm pretty sure a pair of cat trax will easily last 10 years, that's less than $60/year, which is a pretty good way to justify the purchase.

I have one set that has lasted since 1997. I did have to replace the tires once, but that was well worth the investment. In hindsight, I'm sure that I probably could have gotten away with just tubes, but my dealer had a spare set of tires at a fire-sale price.

I have yet to see a set of home-mades that work as well as the Cat Trax or Roleez. Most of them wind up to be extremely heavy, and/or dig into the sand too much.

$250 for a used set is about as cheap as you will ever find them, and worth every penny in the long run.

Mike

I vaguely remember paying $300 for my Tiger Tracks in 1985. They need new end caps, but stil work.

There was not a problem with the tires or the aluminum rims it was making a hub and bearing that worked good. Getting all the parts that fit together and last in salt water is the biggest problem.

Find a place that services golf carts. They will give you the worn tires and rims for free. Since you don't need or want the tread(extra weight) these work great. I used to use a PVC drain fitting that I could bolt to the rims and was greased to slide on a aluminum pipe. You can make cradles but turning the boat over and using the hull for a mold. But trax will always work better and ater I had used a set of homemade for a couple of years I just broke down a bought a good set. They lasted 14 years( money well spent). Check craigs list and some of the sites and you might be able to pick up a set cheaper.

I had mine stolen while being stored (I now lock them to the trailer)...I made my catrax .... you'll need to purchase the wheels and rims from the outfit in Ft. Lauderdale that makes the catrax and also purchase the cradles (alternate source). Beyond that the other parts can be purchased. You'll save a hundred bucks or so ... so in the end probably not worth doing yourself.

Yep.

Cat-Trax are a one time purchase assuming they don't get stolen, fall off the trailer, or die in a drunken rage. I refuse to sell a boat with beach wheels anymore, just because they cost too frickin much, and the next boat needs em' anyway.

I had a set that went from 1984 to 2004 with virtually no repairs. I lost an end cap (Daytona, 1995) and one of the inflation points leaked. I fixed it by shoving a plugged inflation needle into it. I sold them in 2004 for $150 and got one of the "EuroTrax" for my Tiger. What a POS those were. They got sold with the boat in 2008, and I'm back to owning another set of CatTrax. I'll probably die before they do.

The set of CatTrax that I currently use for my TheMightyHobie18 was purchased in 1986(?). Now they leak a little and need to be re-inflated every month or two .... so I keep a "bicycle" pump in my trailer box. A couple pumps ... and "hi ho a diary-o ... a sailing we shall go" ...

I made my first set of "beach wheels" (for my first Hobie a 3-digit H16!!!) from two "appropriated" 1/2 barrel beer kegs ... I should say I ATTEMPTED to .... while being ROUND ... they didn't roll to well on New Jersey sand!!!


To Mr SRM .... you reconize most of the "Forum" members who "posted" in .... and there ain't a novice among them ... if there was a cheaper solution ... they would have found it. But if you do find alternate solution ... let us know ... when it comes to saving $$$'s ... I'm all ears !!!!

Harry
H18Mag/P19MX

jesus Harry, makin' it too easy.




and get some tubes.

If you're really having trouble finding a used set, and if you have the cash, you could always buy a boat that comes with a set, then flip the boat and keep the Cat Trax. This takes cash and cajones (you don't want to get stuck with the boat)...

This works best with a boat like a Hobie Wave, you can usually turn them around very quickly. During the start of sailing season, they don't last on CL for very long.

Mike

I think the wave only has a 7' beam so those wheels wont work on most beach cats ... make sure you get wheels that fit your beam.. or you will have to add weight, expense (and a new and exciting way to bleed when you get your hand pinched by the extension).

OK, speaking of leaky beach wheels and adding inner tubes...

Does the valve stem on a 12x12-8 inner tube exactly match the location of hole on a tubeless wheel? I have those POS EuroTrax and wonder if they used a metric (S.I.) measurement in locating the hole in the wheel. I'd hate to have to figure out where to drill a new hole for USA tubes.

And why should they leak to begin with? Couldn't you just clean and reseat the bead on the tire and wheel, maybe grease it up to help the seal?

If you get Wave Trax or something, just visit your local metal supply joint and pick up a new axle - pretty sure it is 2-inch aluminum tube. I used the Trax Mike Fahle sold me with a Mystere 4.3 for four or five boats, just swapping the axle to fit whatever boat I owned at the time. The Glasers have those Trax, now, and they just put tubes in.

If you have tubeless beach wheels that are leaking or you can't get the tire to seal to the wheel, try adding a sealant made for tubeless mountain bike tires. This has worked for me on various beach and lawnmower tires. Some problems like hard to seal to the rim can be fixed with one application. Other issue will require that up refill the tires with sealant once or twice a year as the sealant dries up or is used up.

Right now my preferred sealant for big tires is Caffélatex. Next is Stan's. I don't use Slime especially on beach wheels because it has ammonia in it and can corrode aluminum wheels.

Trying this will cost you $10-25 depending on product and wheel size but if it works you can get a couple of extra years of life out of a set of wheels. This has extended the life of my original Rolleeze by 5 years.

There are some cases such as a damaged rim and tire bead where nothing short of a tube will work and the damage keeps poking a hole in the tube so you have nothing to lose. In cases like this SLIME makes some heavy SLIME filled tubes that will sometimes work.

When it comes to sealing the tire to the wheel, you could try cleaning it real well and taking it by a big tire shop like Tire Kingdom. They have a commercial bead sealer they put on wheels to prevent leaking. They don't use it all the time but just on old ones that won't close up.

Makes sense

NO!
I've changed a lot of tires, that sh!t is straight up nasty to deal with, and it doesn't really work that well in the first place. It will eventually leak again. And I really don't care if it worked for you, you're an anomaly.

Put a tube in, the tires are soft as hell, and easy to get off of a rim, or go somewhere and pay them $4 to put the tube in. You don't even have to pull the tire off, just break the bead on both sides, get the tube in. I think I broke the bead on mine with my foot.

This isn't a high stress application. Cat-trax have a strange tire size, and its tough to get a tube that is the right size. The tire is a 21x12x8, I think both of mine have a 22x12x8 tube in them. You aren't putting any load on them, and the chance of the tube pinching itself and leaking is pretty low. I threw tubes in close to three years ago, and I don't think I've added air since then.

You guys mean to tell me that no one has successfully made a decent pair of beachwheels on their own using ATV tires or something similar? Of couse I could buy a set of Cat trax. My folks have a pair that they've used for close to 20 years. I know they work well, but I also know that it didn't take a rocket engineer to design them. All we're talking about is a pair of wheels, an axle, and a basic hub/bearing assembly.

Throwing a fist full of cash at the problem is a simple and obvious solution, but unfortunately one that isn't available to me right now.

If anyone has any actual input about the original post topic - sourcing parts to build a set of wheels - that would be most helpful.

sm

That seems to be the gist of things.

Yup - read through the thread again. People are innovative and have come up with home-build solutions that didn't work as well and didn't last as long... most then bought Trax.

Please don't be offended, we're trying to help. Most of us think that home-builts are a bigger waste of money in the long run. To me, that speaks volumes, because cat sailors are notoriously cheap.

Your best bet in the short term may be to sail with a fleet, borrow Cat Trax from others (this is never an issue), and save cash until you can afford to buy some.

Hope this helps.

Mike

PS: To all others, you have a good point about Wave Trax. But, one might get lucky and find a Wave that comes with full size Cat Trax. One won't know unless one tries...

Mike's tip is a good one - keep shopping craigslist in a 100-mile radius. Last month, I saw a painted Hobie 16 on a Zieman trailer with a fiberglass catbox, two sets of sails and a set of Trax for $600.

I made my first set and they were engineered exactly like "Cat Trax" made hubs and bearing races . Cut Delrin rods for bearings. It was a rather large pain in the butt sourcing and ordering all the materials and when it was all said and done I may have come out $150 cheaper than a new set, not counting my time(which I had much more of then).Not worth it.
I got the aluminum from an Aircraft supply comp. and the Delrin from "plywood and plastics". Hubs were made of fiberglassed wood w/ Stainless bolts for lugs.I used PVC reducers for bearing retainers.

I guess you are not understanding what we are saying.
1. there are no such parts to buy off the shelf, you have to fabricate everything yourself . All these are just a guess but you get the idea.
a.wheels and rims 100
b. axle 60
c. bearings plastic 25
d.hubs/welding 75
e.misc hardware 30
f.cradles home made 40
total 330

2. buy the time you invest in trying to make a set and the parts you will be better off just trying to find a used or new set of wheels unless you have access to a machine shop and welder.
3. If you do make a set they more than likely won't work very well or last very long and you will have just wasted time and money that you could have invested in a good set of wheels. How many home built wheels do you see at Regattas that actually work?
4. You can buy the wheels and bearings from FSC and buy you own axle and make you own cradles and save some.
I hope this helps. Most of the people on here have been sailing for a long time and if we could find a cheaper way it would have been posted.

BTW, if you find a cheap package like John did, you have a good chance of getting the seller to split out the Cat Trax alone, and it shouldn't affect his sale price on the rest of the package. This would be far better than buying the whole boat yourself, then having to sell an old boat that no one wants.

It's a win/win, the seller (in theory) would make more money in the long run, and at the very least gets cash in his hands quicker (most of the really old 16s and 18s sit unsold for quite a while).

Mike

I tried hard to build some cat-tracks myself and every way I crunched the numbers, the $250 used set was a much better deal. When I finally accepted that, I put a wanted add on beach cats and picked up a set of euro tracks for $100!

I have a spare set of cat traxs cradles and an axle, I am looking to buy used tires and rims for it.

I have a background in mechanical design (and I'm a miser...bad combo) Trouble is, when dollars go down the weight goes up. If looking to make a set for a 250 pound boat you move yourself, you may be able to come up with a decent combo. I came up with a design that uses electrical conduit & fittings and golf cart wheels/tires. Largest expense being finding larger diameter tires.

The bearing surface is the key, a H16 or heavier boat is hard to move without "nice" bearings.

ps Where's Doug Snell when you need him? He must have posted that ho-made set made with the blue barrel at least 1,500 times on every cat forum ever known to man. ps

I just read this whole string and agree with that the best thing to do is buy Cat Trax. John thanks for the update on the old Cat Trax. I have two sets now and one set of the Euro Trax which I like because of the adjustability. I recognize that some people have to learn from experience so here is a link for some inexpensive wheels that might work well enough: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dock-Boat-l...-Gate-Wheel-NEW-/330451540876#vi-content

I once had a homemade set that came with my formerly owned
P18-2.

It had a galvanized steel pipe for an axle.
It had standard wheelbarrow wheels; the bearings where taken out and the axle fit thru the hubs. NO bearings, just rubbed on the pipes. Held in place by hose clamps around the axle.

Did they work? Why yes they did.
Did it rust some? Why yes they did.
Where they as good as Trax? Why no.
They had some trouble in the loose sand, but they did work, and I used them fot years.

And fot craddles?
Jig saw cut pieces of PVC pipe, contact cement some carpet on them, viola!

My last boat a owned, a N6.0, came with Trax.

Didn't someone use a 55gal barrel for a wheel?

I don't think it was 55 gal. but, yeh. Actually I've seen a few examples. If you're not trailering they seem to work okay. Saw one made of pt lumber, must have weighed 500 lbs! Looked like a small deck.

I think that I saw a pic of that too! Had to weigh more than the boat.

Mike

I am a engineer and toolmaker/fabricator. I also am as cheap as they come, Dutch background. I couldn't make a pair of wheels as cheap as purchasing the Cat Trax. Wife bought them for me when we got married 20 years ago. I don't use them much and they are stored inside. I never had a problem with wheel leakage. $$ per year is cheap. Like Matt said, don't sell them with the boat, especially if you plan on getting another catamaran. I always lock them to my trailer as I know they are valuable.

When something works, the people using the product will sell the product for you.

I made a set that works great! Bill vining gave us the list of supplies. Think it came out to 200$

That being said, my boat is light (f16) and they don't work great on soft sand, but they work fine. I do, however, wish I had a set of real catrax. My tires aren't as big but the gauge of al tube I used makes them relatively heavy compared to the real trax. If my boat were the standard 400lb cat I don't think they would work

I have a Nacra 5.2 and built my own set.
I used a couple of long pressure treated garden fence posts like 5x7 cm (approx 2x3"), just pine, nothing heavy.
___________________
__|OO|_______|OO|__

They are held at the right distance by shorter bits of the same wood. Then two pairs of largish wheel-barrow wheels ,Made in China (6! Euro's a piece) are fitted to a stainless tube which is recessed into the wooden spacers to either side and held there by an alu. strip and ss screws.

The redundancy means I can still move my boat, even with one or two flat tires.
This set up is not heavier than Cat trax as far as I can tell. I must admit thet Cat trax are still better on the beach though.

People have asked to borrow mine (more than once), so they must work! But I use them most on sand, mud and grass.

The caveat is, this is my second attempt, the first was waaay more expensive and both together set me back as much as a decent set of second hand cat trax would have.

If I had to start over I would fork out the cash for some second hand cat trax. If I was really strapped for cash, I'd build the above again.

Oh yeah, the boat hulls sit on the outside, the wheels are just inside the hulls. The bits that stick out (where the boat sits) are covered in el-cheapo doormat.

We used to import the EuroTrax years ago. Have been moving our warehouse and found a bunch of cradles for them. All new and with stainless steel strap and lock knob. These are the adjustable type and move easily along the axle. Fit 2" (50mm) tube axles so will fit EuroTrax, CATTRAX etc. These used to retail for $130 a pair. Final blowout price of $60 a pair plus shipping. We have the UNI, UNI Plus, V and Asymmetrical in stock.

Follow this link to see photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/playaboule/6876140638/ . Once there click through each photo in the photostream

Or see here at the manufacturers website for all the specs. http://www.cadkat.com/Spares_Onlineshop_Cups_and_cradles.html Note: The prices shown there are per cradle and Euro75 = approx. US$105!!

We ship from Seattle and the fixed price to ship anywhere in the USA is $30.00

email sales(at)playaboule(dot)com or call 206-340-5995

That's a good deal.
Where are you shipping from?

I've gotten sets buying complete boat packages at the right price. Then sell off the parts or boat package and keep what you want. (TRAX) and you'll end up getting them free or even making money off other parts. I've done this several times and eventually sold the used sets and ended up put it toward a new set for 550 (with shipping).
Can't build a set that works for less. You want them to float in water, and be light enough to carry. They hold their value well and last forever if you keep them out of the UV.

nice grave dig




I used a pair of front ATV wheels from a Yamaha 225, because that's what I had laying around at the time !!!

I had to make my own hubs tho and that was the PITA bit, alloy weld a plate to a lump of solid bar then machine it into a "hub".

Took me Saturday to do the job and they've done lots of trips around the place now and so far haven't done anything wrong, I do have a modification in mind and that is to fit a better "bearing" as such, using a nylon bush is ok but there's a better way



these work really well on sealed carparks etc & even better on sand, where they fail a bit is on a beach that's covered in sea-weed, this ia probably due to the fact that they are 'inboard' of the hulls so a lump of sea-weeed tends to "rock the boat" so to speak !!
The other 'issue' is the weight, being m/cycle related, the rims are steel so they are a tad on the fat side and then there;s the long term issue of rust.....
I could get them galv-dipped but I figure a lighter set from one of those pocket 4wheelers for kids would be the ducks-nuts, they are also alloy rimmed















[img]http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae97/BADZX/1182/218_zps8dd12931.jpg[/img]


apologies......
don't actually have a single shot of the finished product, but you get the idea

I made a set from aluminum golf cart wheels that work just fine. Been using them all season now. I have a brand set set of cat trax as well and I haven't felt the desire to put them on the trailer instead.

They are ~10lbs heavier than the trax, but that's most because I haven't bought smooth tires for them yet.

I have one more pair of wheels that I made as well at the same time. If I did it again, I might sand cast the parts instead.