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Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: HMurphey] #245937
03/21/12 09:55 PM
03/21/12 09:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by HMurphey
A couple pumps ... and "hi ho a diary-o ...


jesus Harry, makin' it too easy.




and get some tubes.


I'm boatless.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: srm] #245938
03/21/12 11:25 PM
03/21/12 11:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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If you're really having trouble finding a used set, and if you have the cash, you could always buy a boat that comes with a set, then flip the boat and keep the Cat Trax. This takes cash and cajones (you don't want to get stuck with the boat)...

This works best with a boat like a Hobie Wave, you can usually turn them around very quickly. During the start of sailing season, they don't last on CL for very long.

Mike

Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: brucat] #245946
03/22/12 08:37 AM
03/22/12 08:37 AM

M
MN3
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MN3
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M



Originally Posted by brucat
If you're really having trouble finding a used set, and if you have the cash, you could always buy a boat that comes with a set, then flip the boat and keep the Cat Trax. This takes cash and cajones (you don't want to get stuck with the boat)...

This works best with a boat like a Hobie Wave, you can usually turn them around very quickly. During the start of sailing season, they don't last on CL for very long.

Mike


I think the wave only has a 7' beam so those wheels wont work on most beach cats ... make sure you get wheels that fit your beam.. or you will have to add weight, expense (and a new and exciting way to bleed when you get your hand pinched by the extension).

Last edited by MN3; 03/22/12 08:38 AM.
Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: Karl_Brogger] #245949
03/22/12 09:05 AM
03/22/12 09:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
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David Parker  Offline
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
OK, speaking of leaky beach wheels and adding inner tubes...

Does the valve stem on a 12x12-8 inner tube exactly match the location of hole on a tubeless wheel? I have those POS EuroTrax and wonder if they used a metric (S.I.) measurement in locating the hole in the wheel. I'd hate to have to figure out where to drill a new hole for USA tubes.

And why should they leak to begin with? Couldn't you just clean and reseat the bead on the tire and wheel, maybe grease it up to help the seal?

Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: ] #245951
03/22/12 09:38 AM
03/22/12 09:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Originally Posted by MN3
I think the wave only has a 7' beam so those wheels wont work on most beach cats ... make sure you get wheels that fit your beam.. or you will have to add weight, expense (and a new and exciting way to bleed when you get your hand pinched by the extension).


If you get Wave Trax or something, just visit your local metal supply joint and pick up a new axle - pretty sure it is 2-inch aluminum tube. I used the Trax Mike Fahle sold me with a Mystere 4.3 for four or five boats, just swapping the axle to fit whatever boat I owned at the time. The Glasers have those Trax, now, and they just put tubes in.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: David Parker] #245952
03/22/12 10:01 AM
03/22/12 10:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
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Houston
If you have tubeless beach wheels that are leaking or you can't get the tire to seal to the wheel, try adding a sealant made for tubeless mountain bike tires. This has worked for me on various beach and lawnmower tires. Some problems like hard to seal to the rim can be fixed with one application. Other issue will require that up refill the tires with sealant once or twice a year as the sealant dries up or is used up.

Right now my preferred sealant for big tires is Caffélatex. Next is Stan's. I don't use Slime especially on beach wheels because it has ammonia in it and can corrode aluminum wheels.

Trying this will cost you $10-25 depending on product and wheel size but if it works you can get a couple of extra years of life out of a set of wheels. This has extended the life of my original Rolleeze by 5 years.

There are some cases such as a damaged rim and tire bead where nothing short of a tube will work and the damage keeps poking a hole in the tube so you have nothing to lose. In cases like this SLIME makes some heavy SLIME filled tubes that will sometimes work.

Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: srm] #245953
03/22/12 10:07 AM
03/22/12 10:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 139
Hernando, Florida
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Mlcreek Offline
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Hernando, Florida
When it comes to sealing the tire to the wheel, you could try cleaning it real well and taking it by a big tire shop like Tire Kingdom. They have a commercial bead sealer they put on wheels to prevent leaking. They don't use it all the time but just on old ones that won't close up.


Forrest
I-20
USA 645

" There ain't enough rum in the drum!"
Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: John Williams] #245954
03/22/12 10:23 AM
03/22/12 10:23 AM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
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M



Originally Posted by John Williams
Originally Posted by MN3
I think the wave only has a 7' beam so those wheels wont work on most beach cats ... make sure you get wheels that fit your beam.. or you will have to add weight, expense (and a new and exciting way to bleed when you get your hand pinched by the extension).


If you get Wave Trax or something, just visit your local metal supply joint and pick up a new axle - pretty sure it is 2-inch aluminum tube. I used the Trax Mike Fahle sold me with a Mystere 4.3 for four or five boats, just swapping the axle to fit whatever boat I owned at the time. The Glasers have those Trax, now, and they just put tubes in.


Makes sense

Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: carlbohannon] #245958
03/22/12 10:47 AM
03/22/12 10:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by carlbohannon
If you have tubeless beach wheels that are leaking or you can't get the tire to seal to the wheel, try adding a sealant made for tubeless mountain bike tires.



NO!
I've changed a lot of tires, that sh!t is straight up nasty to deal with, and it doesn't really work that well in the first place. It will eventually leak again. And I really don't care if it worked for you, you're an anomaly.

Put a tube in, the tires are soft as hell, and easy to get off of a rim, or go somewhere and pay them $4 to put the tube in. You don't even have to pull the tire off, just break the bead on both sides, get the tube in. I think I broke the bead on mine with my foot.

This isn't a high stress application. Cat-trax have a strange tire size, and its tough to get a tube that is the right size. The tire is a 21x12x8, I think both of mine have a 22x12x8 tube in them. You aren't putting any load on them, and the chance of the tube pinching itself and leaking is pretty low. I threw tubes in close to three years ago, and I don't think I've added air since then.


I'm boatless.
Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: Karl_Brogger] #245960
03/22/12 11:15 AM
03/22/12 11:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
S
srm Offline OP
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srm  Offline OP
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Posts: 330
You guys mean to tell me that no one has successfully made a decent pair of beachwheels on their own using ATV tires or something similar? Of couse I could buy a set of Cat trax. My folks have a pair that they've used for close to 20 years. I know they work well, but I also know that it didn't take a rocket engineer to design them. All we're talking about is a pair of wheels, an axle, and a basic hub/bearing assembly.

Throwing a fist full of cash at the problem is a simple and obvious solution, but unfortunately one that isn't available to me right now.

If anyone has any actual input about the original post topic - sourcing parts to build a set of wheels - that would be most helpful.

sm

Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: srm] #245961
03/22/12 11:21 AM
03/22/12 11:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by srm
You guys mean to tell me that no one has successfully made a decent pair of beachwheels on their own using ATV tires or something similar?


That seems to be the gist of things.

Last edited by Karl_Brogger; 03/22/12 11:21 AM.

I'm boatless.
Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: srm] #245963
03/22/12 11:27 AM
03/22/12 11:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Yup - read through the thread again. People are innovative and have come up with home-build solutions that didn't work as well and didn't last as long... most then bought Trax.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: srm] #245964
03/22/12 11:46 AM
03/22/12 11:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Please don't be offended, we're trying to help. Most of us think that home-builts are a bigger waste of money in the long run. To me, that speaks volumes, because cat sailors are notoriously cheap.

Your best bet in the short term may be to sail with a fleet, borrow Cat Trax from others (this is never an issue), and save cash until you can afford to buy some.

Hope this helps.

Mike

PS: To all others, you have a good point about Wave Trax. But, one might get lucky and find a Wave that comes with full size Cat Trax. One won't know unless one tries...

Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: srm] #245965
03/22/12 12:06 PM
03/22/12 12:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Long Beach, California
Mike's tip is a good one - keep shopping craigslist in a 100-mile radius. Last month, I saw a painted Hobie 16 on a Zieman trailer with a fiberglass catbox, two sets of sails and a set of Trax for $600.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: srm] #245968
03/22/12 12:32 PM
03/22/12 12:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by srm
You guys mean to tell me that no one has successfully made a decent pair of beachwheels on their own using ATV tires or something similar? Of couse I could buy a set of Cat trax. My folks have a pair that they've used for close to 20 years. I know they work well, but I also know that it didn't take a rocket engineer to design them. All we're talking about is a pair of wheels, an axle, and a basic hub/bearing assembly.

Throwing a fist full of cash at the problem is a simple and obvious solution, but unfortunately one that isn't available to me right now.

If anyone has any actual input about the original post topic - sourcing parts to build a set of wheels - that would be most helpful.

sm


I made my first set and they were engineered exactly like "Cat Trax" made hubs and bearing races . Cut Delrin rods for bearings. It was a rather large pain in the butt sourcing and ordering all the materials and when it was all said and done I may have come out $150 cheaper than a new set, not counting my time(which I had much more of then).Not worth it.
I got the aluminum from an Aircraft supply comp. and the Delrin from "plywood and plastics". Hubs were made of fiberglassed wood w/ Stainless bolts for lugs.I used PVC reducers for bearing retainers.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: srm] #245970
03/22/12 12:40 PM
03/22/12 12:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
Dlennard Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
Originally Posted by srm
You guys mean to tell me that no one has successfully made a decent pair of beachwheels on their own using ATV tires or something similar? Of couse I could buy a set of Cat trax. My folks have a pair that they've used for close to 20 years. I know they work well, but I also know that it didn't take a rocket engineer to design them. All we're talking about is a pair of wheels, an axle, and a basic hub/bearing assembly.

Throwing a fist full of cash at the problem is a simple and obvious solution, but unfortunately one that isn't available to me right now.

If anyone has any actual input about the original post topic - sourcing parts to build a set of wheels - that would be most helpful.

sm


I guess you are not understanding what we are saying.
1. there are no such parts to buy off the shelf, you have to fabricate everything yourself . All these are just a guess but you get the idea.
a.wheels and rims 100
b. axle 60
c. bearings plastic 25
d.hubs/welding 75
e.misc hardware 30
f.cradles home made 40
total 330

2. buy the time you invest in trying to make a set and the parts you will be better off just trying to find a used or new set of wheels unless you have access to a machine shop and welder.
3. If you do make a set they more than likely won't work very well or last very long and you will have just wasted time and money that you could have invested in a good set of wheels. How many home built wheels do you see at Regattas that actually work?
4. You can buy the wheels and bearings from FSC and buy you own axle and make you own cradles and save some.
I hope this helps. Most of the people on here have been sailing for a long time and if we could find a cheaper way it would have been posted.

Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: srm] #245975
03/22/12 01:23 PM
03/22/12 01:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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BTW, if you find a cheap package like John did, you have a good chance of getting the seller to split out the Cat Trax alone, and it shouldn't affect his sale price on the rest of the package. This would be far better than buying the whole boat yourself, then having to sell an old boat that no one wants.

It's a win/win, the seller (in theory) would make more money in the long run, and at the very least gets cash in his hands quicker (most of the really old 16s and 18s sit unsold for quite a while).

Mike

Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: srm] #245987
03/22/12 08:06 PM
03/22/12 08:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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bacho  Offline
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Posts: 774
Greenville SC
I tried hard to build some cat-tracks myself and every way I crunched the numbers, the $250 used set was a much better deal. When I finally accepted that, I put a wanted add on beach cats and picked up a set of euro tracks for $100!

I have a spare set of cat traxs cradles and an axle, I am looking to buy used tires and rims for it.

Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: bacho] #245989
03/22/12 09:36 PM
03/22/12 09:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
_flatlander_ Offline
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I have a background in mechanical design (and I'm a miser...bad combo) Trouble is, when dollars go down the weight goes up. If looking to make a set for a 250 pound boat you move yourself, you may be able to come up with a decent combo. I came up with a design that uses electrical conduit & fittings and golf cart wheels/tires. Largest expense being finding larger diameter tires.

The bearing surface is the key, a H16 or heavier boat is hard to move without "nice" bearings.

ps Where's Doug Snell when you need him? He must have posted that ho-made set made with the blue barrel at least 1,500 times on every cat forum ever known to man. ps

Last edited by _flatlander_; 03/22/12 09:36 PM.

John H16, H14
Re: Wheels for beach wheels [Re: srm] #245993
03/22/12 10:25 PM
03/22/12 10:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
Mike Fahle Offline
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Mike Fahle  Offline
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Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
I just read this whole string and agree with that the best thing to do is buy Cat Trax. John thanks for the update on the old Cat Trax. I have two sets now and one set of the Euro Trax which I like because of the adjustability. I recognize that some people have to learn from experience so here is a link for some inexpensive wheels that might work well enough: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dock-Boat-l...-Gate-Wheel-NEW-/330451540876#vi-content

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