| |  Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: Reiss]
#246194
03/26/12 06:43 PM 03/26/12 06:43 PM |
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Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger 
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Northfield Mn | F16 Nationals Nov 9 -11, 2012. Re, "I hope I can sail ONE of them" Sailors please chime in -- will anyone out there be able and likely to sail in both events (both are F16 Open events), or will you be required to chose just one? If you have to chose just one, which one will you attend? We need some serious feedback and we need it quick. 2012 F16 Nationals was planned when there were no major conflicts, now the host club has to seriously evaluate whether there will likely be enough of a turn out that the club is not in danger of taking a financial hit. Please help us figure out whether, as the 2012 F16 Nationals host site, we are likely to have a reasonable turnout. Given what we knew about the location of the fleet and the other regularly scheduled events during that time frame, we thought we would get at least 25 boats to the regatta. Now we are very concerned. Both events are Open F16 events in the Florida panhandle, just a few days apart. Alter cup is 4 days and $400 entry fee. F16 Nationals planned for 3 days and $150 entry fee. I plan on doing Nationals for sure. Possibly both.
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: John Williams]
#246218
03/27/12 07:07 AM 03/27/12 07:07 AM |
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Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Clermont, FL, USA | I don't think there is any, Pete. The sponsorship package evolved, and the "old" event format became incompatible. They were two, different missions. Which leads to the question, would the championship be better served by severing its ties with US Sailing?
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#246220
03/27/12 07:10 AM 03/27/12 07:10 AM |
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| As much as I like competition, and USS needs some, I think this is a bad approach. It would be like climbing Everest.
But what do you have in mind?
Pete Pollard
Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: pgp]
#246221
03/27/12 07:29 AM 03/27/12 07:29 AM |
Joined: Oct 2005
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tampa, fl ksurfer2
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tampa, fl | Is the alter cup going to be sailed as previous events have? 20 teams sailing 10 identically prepped boats in two flights? Teams are selected through area championships or through petition?
From the sound of this thread, it sounds like anyone who shows up with their f16 (any brand) can sail the alter cup. Am I missing something?
I am not trying to stir any pots regarding the whole alter cup boat issue, I am just looking for some clarification on how the event is being administered.
If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#246222
03/27/12 07:37 AM 03/27/12 07:37 AM |
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| I think you are spot are. Show up with a cert., pay your money and you're in, provided you're on a F16.
I'd love to do it. But I don't love it $400 worth.
Last edited by pgp; 03/27/12 08:56 AM.
Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: ksurfer2]
#246225
03/27/12 08:04 AM 03/27/12 08:04 AM |
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South Carolina Jake
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South Carolina | Is the alter cup going to be sailed as previous events have? 20 teams sailing 10 identically prepped boats in two flights? Teams are selected through area championships or through petition?
From the sound of this thread, it sounds like anyone who shows up with their f16 (any brand) can sail the alter cup. Am I missing something?
I am not trying to stir any pots regarding the whole alter cup boat issue, I am just looking for some clarification on how the event is being administered. This iteration will not be like previous events. The primary reason is not being able to offset the growing expense of chartering 10 new boats and/or difficulty in putting together a fleet of 10 existing boats in short order. It will be an open event for F16 teams (or teams that wish to charter and bring an F16). The times, they are'a changin'.
Jake Kohl
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: rehmbo]
#246231
03/27/12 08:53 AM 03/27/12 08:53 AM |
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Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Clermont, FL, USA | Uh oh... Here we go again... Jeff, help me understand why the US Sailing Championship is $100 a day while the F16 National Championship is $50 a day. Espically when US Sailing brings a ready made sponsorship package to the table and has access to the Hyott Jolly fund.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee - hijacked
[Re: catandahalf]
#246234
03/27/12 09:07 AM 03/27/12 09:07 AM |
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Maryland Kris Hathaway
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Maryland | We learned a lesson during Tradewinds, and that lesson was, "Thou shalt not stack titles." Really? I thought Tradewinds was a great turnout with lots of competition. Many racers left with awards based upon their sub-classification within the event. The youth got challenged by all sorts of competitors. The yearly round robin overlay of the multihull championship on top of recognized catamaran classes' Nationals/North Americans would have been an inexpensive solution for US Sailing. I am sorry to see the recent Alter Cup formula end. Those involved deserve a lot of recognition because it does not get any better than that and to do it with a limited budget also....hats off!!!
Kris Hathaway
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee - hijacked
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#246236
03/27/12 09:11 AM 03/27/12 09:11 AM |
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| "Stacked" titles is the way to go, imo. Run two courses, one for Alter Cup one for ANYONE else who will come and sail to have a good time. Rotate Alter Cup among the classes.
I was only at Tradewinds as a spectator but it seemed like it was well run. I thought there should have been more PR and that would have attracted even more people.
Last edited by pgp; 03/27/12 09:13 AM.
Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: catandahalf]
#246240
03/27/12 09:47 AM 03/27/12 09:47 AM |
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Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Clermont, FL, USA | US Sailing owns the Alter Cup via a contract/deed of gift. So, aren't we reinventing anyway? Do we really need to pay double just because it's a US Sailing Championship? How does paying twice as much move the sport forward?
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#246243
03/27/12 10:22 AM 03/27/12 10:22 AM |
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| I like the notion of Alter Cup for selecting the best, mostly highly skilled people we have. But the sport sprang from a day at the beach! Fun!
We need to get back to A,B, and C fleets.
Pete Pollard
Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: David Ingram]
#246248
03/27/12 10:37 AM 03/27/12 10:37 AM |
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Detroit, MI mbounds
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Detroit, MI | US Sailing owns the Alter Cup via a contract/deed of gift. So, aren't we reinventing anyway? Do we really need to pay double just because it's a US Sailing Championship? How does paying twice as much move the sport forward? I'm not saying this to be mean, Ding, but you don't have to go. If you find value in going, then go. Otherwise, don't. I thought the Championship of Champions was pricey ($400) for 3 days of racing and a practice day. However, they fed us (beer, breakfast, lunch and dinner for 4 days), entertained us (Gary J. and Tom Ehman spoke on different nights) and they arranged for us to stay with a local family so I didn't have to pay for a hotel. We got in 20 races in three days with boat rotations between each race. We got a whole bunch of swag to go along with our registration - including a DVD slide show of the professional photos taken at the event. I didn't see the value going in, but I sure saw it coming out. I'd do it again in a heartbeat - as long as I don't have to sail a Flying Scot again. | | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: mbounds]
#246255
03/27/12 12:04 PM 03/27/12 12:04 PM |
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Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Clermont, FL, USA |
I'm not saying this to be mean, Ding, but you don't have to go.
If you find value in going, then go. Otherwise, don't.
So it's US Sailings position to charge twice as much as pretty much the same event as the month before and if you have a question about paying double US Sailing's response is... Don't go, really? I've heard Jobson speak, what else you got? Why is everyone so afraid to challenge the staffers of US Sailing regarding the imposed fees for US Sailing Championships?
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#246281
03/27/12 03:06 PM 03/27/12 03:06 PM |
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Posts: 3,969 brucat
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| OK guys, let's take a few deep breaths.
Mark was simply asking for your input for events after 2012, as that will be the next job for the committee.
US Sailing is neither dictating the budget, nor getting the numbers from the manufacturers. Accusations to the contrary are insulting to the volunteers spending countless hours on this.
As for 2012, the NOR is still in draft, and a press release will accompany that.
Until those documents are released, take everything that you read here with a grain of salt.
When those documents are released, before you choose to lash out here, realize that many people are putting in a lot of time to come up with a great event, and to try to come up with the best solutions to continue the health of the championship on a long-term basis.
Mike
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: brucat]
#246290
03/27/12 04:13 PM 03/27/12 04:13 PM |
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Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
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Annapolis, MD | AND WE ARE BACK ON TRACK here...
Feel free to define an elite sailor for me.. I think that is a fundamental issue for everyone to agree on.
We have the Olympics and the ISAF grade I events to figure out who the best catamran sailor in the country is... and we send them off to the Olympics to try for a gold.
We have a Champion of champions regatta already... It is for any sailor, who wins their class NA's to apply for and compete....IMO, these are 20 elite sailors. So... Matt Bounds applied and raced this event as a H17NA champ. Catamarans are not special... they don't get a mini-version of this regatta. Sailing is sailing.
So. What is the mulithull championship supposed to add to the big picture?
Who is the core constituency that you can count on to pay the time and money to compete for the US Multihull Championship and what does it mean?
Last edited by Mark Schneider; 03/27/12 04:26 PM.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: US Sailing Championship Committee
[Re: David Ingram]
#246291
03/27/12 05:26 PM 03/27/12 05:26 PM |
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Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Roanoke Island ,N.C. | Uh oh... Here we go again... Jeff, help me understand why the US Sailing Championship is $100 a day while the F16 National Championship is $50 a day. Espically when US Sailing brings a ready made sponsorship package to the table and has access to the Hyott Jolly fund. Nail meet coffin. I would love to hear the reasoning behind this from someone involved with US Sailing. They have sponsors and money in a fund yet find the need to fleece sailors just to race for the "Alter Cup", which will mean alot less under the new format because everyone will be using their own boats, it's not controlled. Unfortunately this really doesn't surprise me.
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