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racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning #246355
03/28/12 12:23 PM
03/28/12 12:23 PM
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pgp Offline OP
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America's Cup
Indy 500
Formula 1
Formula 40
F16 Nationals
Olympics
A Class nationals
F18 worlds
Jules Verne
Iditarod
Kentucky Derby
Preakness
Belmont
...I think I forgot one.

The more I think about it swapping boats and prohibiting tuning is just silly.

Last edited by pgp; 03/28/12 12:24 PM.

Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

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Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246358
03/28/12 12:32 PM
03/28/12 12:32 PM
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brucat Offline
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You should see the circus at the Hinman (team racing championship).

Only half of the teams are racing at any given time, so besides a dock out near the course, they need a yacht to hold all the sailors that are on standby.

Most exciting RC work ever, though!

Mike

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246362
03/28/12 12:54 PM
03/28/12 12:54 PM
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pgp Offline OP
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Maybe do a private survey of people who won't consider Alter Cup because they are NOT permitted to tune?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: brucat] #246363
03/28/12 12:54 PM
03/28/12 12:54 PM
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Rock Hill,SC
KevinRejda Offline
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And you should see the "circus" at the Alter Cup the last several years - most all of the sailors not racing hanging around the scoring tent listening to the mark roundings, watching with binocs, keeping close track of the action on the water, wanting to know who is moving up and who is moving down. I would guess most of the people who don't like the idea of only sailing half the races have not been present at the Alter Cup in its most recent format.


Kevin Rejda
Rock Hill, SC

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246364
03/28/12 01:06 PM
03/28/12 01:06 PM
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Daytona Beach Florida
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orphan Offline
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You can tune. It's called: main sheet, jib sheet, downhaul, outhaul, traveler, weight placement, shall I go on. This is what seperates the good from the best. To be able to look and the boat the sail and the conditions and make the right adjustments. One of the things that makes the Alter Cup the Alter Cup.

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: KevinRejda] #246365
03/28/12 01:11 PM
03/28/12 01:11 PM
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Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Originally Posted by KevinRejda
And you should see the "circus" at the Alter Cup the last several years - most all of the sailors not racing hanging around the scoring tent listening to the mark roundings, watching with binocs, keeping close track of the action on the water, wanting to know who is moving up and who is moving down. I would guess most of the people who don't like the idea of only sailing half the races have not been present at the Alter Cup in its most recent format.


and Karl threatening physical violence of an extreme nature should they ding up his new boat......


I'm boatless.
Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246366
03/28/12 01:15 PM
03/28/12 01:15 PM
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Rock Hill,SC
KevinRejda Offline
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Pete - we all get it that you don't like the idea of not being able to tune the boats to your liking - enough with it already. The Alter Cup has always been unique in several respects and this is/was one of them. Your analogy to all of those other events is what is silly, those people are providing their own equipment, not supplied equipment, apples and oranges. It has already been said, the point is to take the boat out of it, make it the sailors.


Kevin Rejda
Rock Hill, SC

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246369
03/28/12 01:27 PM
03/28/12 01:27 PM
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pgp Offline OP
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I shouldn't have said silly. But if you look at the way most racing competitions are run the "man and machine" function together as a unit.

If those of you who want the existing format can find a way to continue, all well and good. But I thought that was no longer viable and we needed a new format. Is that not the case?





Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246372
03/28/12 01:35 PM
03/28/12 01:35 PM
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alsail Offline
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Well said Kevin in the IROC the international race of campions the cars are provided by a manufacturer and they are exactly the same all you do is get in and drive and that way they test the driver or team not the ability of the team to push the envalope not that they cheat in car racing heaven forbid.... It's not boat tuning 101 it's about the abilities of the skipper and crew to take what thier given and make it go faster or out performe everyone else ....

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246390
03/28/12 03:40 PM
03/28/12 03:40 PM
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pgp Offline OP
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IROC is defunct,yes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Race_of_Champions
"In 2007, IROC could not find a sponsor and postponed the first two races at Daytona and Texas.[1] IROC went on hiatus in 2007 hoping to return with a sponsor in 2008. In March 2008, IROC auctioned off its tools, equipment, cars, and memorabilia, and went out of business"

Last edited by pgp; 03/28/12 03:42 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: KevinRejda] #246397
03/28/12 05:15 PM
03/28/12 05:15 PM
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Originally Posted by KevinRejda
Pete - we all get it that you don't like the idea of not being able to tune the boats to your liking - enough with it already. The Alter Cup has always been unique in several respects and this is/was one of them. Your analogy to all of those other events is what is silly, those people are providing their own equipment, not supplied equipment, apples and oranges. It has already been said, the point is to take the boat out of it, make it the sailors.


+1


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246401
03/28/12 06:32 PM
03/28/12 06:32 PM
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SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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Pete,

Let's say for arguments sake that I was in the second round of the Alter Cup using F16 Vipers ... but you're in front of me in the first round using the same boat that I'm scheduled to use in the second round ...

After all the boats are tuned to be exactly alike ... you decide to tune the F16 to your liking for the first round ....

When you hit the beach .... I WILL BEAT YOU SENSELESS ... w/ the tiller stick ....

... because I trust Robbie to set all the boats up to the same spec's .... NOT YOU !!!!!!

.... and you have just F*CKED ME ... since I now have to try and quickly re-tune the boat ... that I don't normally sail/race !!!!


... of course there is the solution of a BYOB event ... and you can tune your boat anyway you wish ....


Harry Murphey
H18Mag/P19MX

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246402
03/28/12 06:55 PM
03/28/12 06:55 PM
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pgp Offline OP
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I can't believe anyone is reading this thread much less responding.

But my suggestion was byob with tuning. You wouldn't be sharing boats.

One last thought then I'm done. USS owns Alter Cup, they are a Federally licensed monopoly whose mandate is to support and develop Olympic sailing. Therefore it seems reasonable to me that the USS championship should epitomize and emulate the highest standards of Olympic sailing i.e. each team brings their own boat and tunes it to the highest level of performance.

In the end I suspect your argument will be with USS not with me.

Last edited by pgp; 03/28/12 06:56 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246409
03/28/12 07:39 PM
03/28/12 07:39 PM
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brucat Offline
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Of course tuning is completely acceptable for BYOB. The only time tuning has been out is with supplied boats.

Am I missing something?

Mike

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246410
03/28/12 07:43 PM
03/28/12 07:43 PM
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pgp Offline OP
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Not really.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246413
03/28/12 08:17 PM
03/28/12 08:17 PM
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Rock Hill,SC
KevinRejda Offline
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Pete - the Alter Cup has nothing to do with the Olympics. Do you really think everything USS does is only pointed at the Olympics?


Kevin Rejda
Rock Hill, SC

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246426
03/29/12 05:31 AM
03/29/12 05:31 AM
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pgp Offline OP
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Olympic development is what they are mandated to do by congress. That they may very well function outside that mandate is cause for concern.

Do you feel the U.S. Olympic sailing team is as successful as it could be? What is our medal count? If that count is unsatisfactory, perhaps USS should focus more on its mandate!


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: HMurphey] #246427
03/29/12 05:40 AM
03/29/12 05:40 AM
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Wilmington,NC
Dlennard Offline
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Originally Posted by HMurphey
Pete,

Let's say for arguments sake that I was in the second round of the Alter Cup using F16 Vipers ... but you're in front of me in the first round using the same boat that I'm scheduled to use in the second round ...

After all the boats are tuned to be exactly alike ... you decide to tune the F16 to your liking for the first round ....

When you hit the beach .... I WILL BEAT YOU SENSELESS ... w/ the tiller stick ....

... because I trust Robbie to set all the boats up to the same spec's .... NOT YOU !!!!!!

.... and you have just F*CKED ME ... since I now have to try and quickly re-tune the boat ... that I don't normally sail/race !!!!


... of course there is the solution of a BYOB event ... and you can tune your boat anyway you wish ....


Harry Murphey
H18Mag/P19MX


Harry,

I think the point is that teams weights are different and setting the spreader rake and mast rake would be different for different teams. A light weight team could be over powered with the base settings and not be able to control the boat as well as a heavy weight team in windy conditions and a heavy weight team would be at a disadvantage in light air. The boats are set up in a middle of the range settings so may be better for teams in the middle weight range. I can see why they don't allow these changes for supplied boats as you would never get any racing in, just boat tuning.

Re: racing events that don't swap equipment and permit tuning [Re: pgp] #246480
03/29/12 12:52 PM
03/29/12 12:52 PM
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Boston, Ma
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Hinman doesn't allow tuning, aside from jib halyard tension. I would argue it is one of the most competitive of the US Sailing Championships, and considered one of the top three (arguably two) team races in the world.


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