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Carnac 2012 - results #247546
04/29/12 12:50 AM
04/29/12 12:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline OP
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Gilo  Offline OP
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Knokke-Heist - Belgium
First results of C1 group (where the 16ft sail in).
Mind that the results are with rating calculated as the heavier F16 decided to sail this race on handicap, not F16 rating.

More updates: http://www.facebook.com/TheBoatShop.be
Race results first day: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...6845.271892154392&type=1&theater

Falcons taking 3,12,14,15 in top 20.

Gill


Falcon F16 - BEL666
Boats: TheBoatShop.be
Stories: bladef16.blogspot.com
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Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Gilo] #247552
04/29/12 06:52 AM
04/29/12 06:52 AM

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MarkMT
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Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Gilo] #247595
05/01/12 02:07 AM
05/01/12 02:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline
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DanTnz  Offline
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Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
Gill - just out of interest, do you what the line honours results were among the F16s competing? Dan

Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Gilo] #247653
05/02/12 06:19 AM
05/02/12 06:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline OP
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Gilo  Offline OP
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Knokke-Heist - Belgium
For the buoy racing line honours are more difficult to tell. For some races it didn't matter, but for our 333 youth team, on one race they lost 5 places because of the racing.

For the raid it is a different story.
First Falcon finished just below 2 hours (less than a minute behind Bundy) and clearly 3rd F16, beating the Nacra's and most of the Vipers were some very talented sailors where placed on. Our Swiss team finished in front of Chris&Georgina and the Cirrus Q but ended up 19th, the Cirrus 10th... So here the rating has a bigger effect.

Overall very good performance of all the Falcons there, showing weekend racers can mix it up with the pro's.

Buoy racing results: http://www.yccarnac.com/uploads/htm...2012/eurocat_interseries_g_definitif.htm

Long distance results: http://www.yccarnac.com/uploads/html%20resultat%20regate%20de%20freg/raid_eurocat_2012_g.htm#GRP_2

Regards,
Gill

Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Gilo] #247671
05/02/12 12:50 PM
05/02/12 12:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
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Any pics of the Cirrus Q?

Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Tony_F18] #247694
05/03/12 05:33 AM
05/03/12 05:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Any pics of the Cirrus Q?


+1


I'm boatless.
Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Gilo] #247717
05/03/12 02:10 PM
05/03/12 02:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline OP
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Knokke-Heist - Belgium


Falcon F16 - BEL666
Boats: TheBoatShop.be
Stories: bladef16.blogspot.com
Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Gilo] #247719
05/03/12 04:24 PM
05/03/12 04:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline
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Those are some seriously long daggers on the Q. Photo #359.

Pic


Kris Hathaway
Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Kris Hathaway] #247722
05/03/12 04:40 PM
05/03/12 04:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline
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First time I've seen both spin blocks on the front beam. Looks like the blocks closest to the chute's clew can slide independently outboard to "open" up the chute.

Pic


Kris Hathaway
Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Kris Hathaway] #247723
05/03/12 04:45 PM
05/03/12 04:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline
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Maryland
Interesting comparative view of the "R" & "Q".

Pic


Kris Hathaway
Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Kris Hathaway] #247724
05/03/12 04:59 PM
05/03/12 04:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Last edited by Wouter; 05/03/12 05:00 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Kris Hathaway] #247748
05/04/12 07:57 AM
05/04/12 07:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
Originally Posted by Kris Hathaway
First time I've seen both spin blocks on the front beam. Looks like the blocks closest to the chute's clew can slide independently outboard to "open" up the chute.

Pic


would having the spin block on the beam like that shorten the foot of the spinnaker?


Jay

Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: waterbug_wpb] #247829
05/06/12 05:51 AM
05/06/12 05:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
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waynemarlow Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by Kris Hathaway
First time I've seen both spin blocks on the front beam. Looks like the blocks closest to the chute's clew can slide independently outboard to "open" up the chute.

Pic


would having the spin block on the beam like that shorten the foot of the spinnaker?


No most spinny's have now been limited to min foot length by the definition of what is a spinnaker and what is a reaching sail( see SCHRS for definition )ie we are all at min foot length already due to the apparant wind requiring very flat sails. By choice I would be even flatter if the handicap system would allow it.

On the Cirrus I would suspect they have moved the front beam back as per A Class design and kept the max 3.5m spinny pole and thus the blocks have to go as far foward as possible.

This is excactly what I found on my boat which was derived from an A design and was rather unpleasantly surprised to have to move the spinny blocks foward onto the beam. I am looking at chopping the spinny pole some 300mm or so to get some sort slot effect back from the Spinny back onto the main. Do we need the pole at max length on these boats ?

The downsides of moving the beams back are lack of crew operating room and more reliance on volume way back to cover the crews weight,the upsides are less volume needed up front and if the pole is cut, less uplift from the Spinny.

Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Gilo] #247830
05/06/12 06:08 AM
05/06/12 06:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
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Australia
Longer pole = more faster. Always.


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Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: waynemarlow] #247832
05/06/12 06:40 AM
05/06/12 06:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Even with my Goodall spinnaker from 2004 I used blocks on the main beam. In the last few years to spi's have only become shorter in the foot.

"Do we need the pole at max length on these boats ?"

Actually, we never did. That rule was only included in the F16 rules to satisfy Texel and SCHRS handicap systems that have some formula that determines max spi pole length.

That formula is a pain in the neck and so I just took the virtual F16 with its mainbeam halfway the hull and worked out that like that we could have a 3.5 mtr spi pole and still not break the Texel or SCHRS rules. At that time, from comparisons to F18's, I already knew that we would be using shorter poles. Mine is actually 3.25 mtr. and seems to nicely balance the boat. I did try 3.5.mtr but the leehelm became a problem. I tried several intermediate positions as well, but 3.25 mtr worked best and then I still have to place my last blocks on the main beam. This does clear up the area around the side stay though (an unexpected benefit).

I'm still convinced that 3.50 mtr spi poles are too long for F16. I mean, you can sail with that, but the optimal length both balance and speed wise seems to be less then that. Remember that our forestays are relatively far back as well, partly due to the use of bridle struts that makes our jib foot come out very low. The slot between the spi and jib luffs is pretty big already on F16's. Equal in size of larger then the ones on F18's.

I recall that Blades, Falcons and others are using less then 3.50 as well.

Wouter


Last edited by Wouter; 05/06/12 06:45 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Gilo] #247835
05/06/12 07:01 AM
05/06/12 07:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
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macca  Offline
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Australia
Ok, you go sail with 25cm less pole length and I am 100% sure you will be slower than the full length option.

The helm balance issue is not related to the speed potential, you need to solve that another way. But to shorten the pole because it steers nicer is to make your boat slower.


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Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: macca] #247839
05/06/12 07:33 AM
05/06/12 07:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Come to think of it.

When is that ultimate F16 of yours coming out ?

You have been advising everyone on everything related the F16's over the last ohh 8 years now and up till now that is all that you have done. Talk.

You are proving to be more and more like Douglord with any new post.

Last edited by Wouter; 05/06/12 07:34 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: Gilo] #247840
05/06/12 07:35 AM
05/06/12 07:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
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macca  Offline
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Australia
I'm kind of busy with a much bigger project...


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Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: macca] #247841
05/06/12 07:36 AM
05/06/12 07:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Well, clearly you are not busy enough. C ya !

Last edited by Wouter; 05/06/12 07:36 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Carnac 2012 - results [Re: macca] #247846
05/06/12 07:41 AM
05/06/12 07:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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pgp  Offline
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Originally Posted by macca
I'm kind of busy with a much bigger project...


Not busy enough it seems.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

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