http://youtu.be/iXAhaPTdZOI

Team Telefonica has spare rudders that measure in, but they weren't declared at the start of the race as required by the NoR. It turns out that they now need to use one of these undeclared rudders because all of their declared rudders have been lost overboard or broken. Would you allow it? If so, at what penalty? and why?

My first thought is, "the rules are the rules, you knew them coming in. You should have declared all of your rudders at the proper time." My guess is that these extra rudders were built much later.

Allow, no penalty. Why? Why not? They can't continue without them.

I should add I'm basically indifferent but enjoy rule based **** storms!

I guess your question can't be answered without understanding why the NoR required the declaration in the first place.

It was likely an arbitrary decision. You see that a lot with rules.

In the NOR, was there any limit on how many spare rudders each boat is allowed to carry?

Why did they not measure in this particular set?

If they knowingly 'broke the rules' so to speak, well, you have to toss them or penalize them, if there is some type of a time penalty in the NOR, to deal with these issues.

I would imagine it is to keep people from deviating from the design of the rudders and possibly swapping them during the race for different conditions...but does that really matter? If the rule says it, they broke the rule. I think they should suffer some sort of penalty after the replacement rudders have been assessed to ensure legality. If they're illegal, the penalty should be considerably tuffer.

Without looking at the specifics of the NOR...

I doubt that the intention was to limit how many rudders a team could use overall, especially after breaking them.

I could see some value in limiting how many spares can be carried on a given leg (although, even that mysitfies me, as it directly affects safety and potentially saves lives).

I would say, as long as they measure in, let them build new ones and enter the next leg with them. MAYBE show the jury the broken ones to be sure we're on the up-and-up; but realistically, no one in their right mind is going to argue that they broke three rudders to win a performance advantage in the next in-port race or on the next leg.

Mike

Based on the video explaining the situation. I don't think there is a limit on how many spare rudders each boat is allowed to have, only that all spares must be declared at the beginning of the race. The undeclared rudders do measure in and are otherwise legal.

I can only assume that they didn't exist at the beginning of the race, and that's why they weren't declared.

I expect that the Jury will do what is best for the race as a whole, not necessarily what is fair for this particular set of competitors. After all, only 6 boats entered this edition of the race. The last thing they need to do is piss off Telefonica and end up with only 5 boats next edition.

If I remember right, during the last edition of the race one of the boats had a keel that didn't measure in as legal. The boat was allowed to race anyway, but was assessed a 5 point penalty each leg (or one position further back,) until the keel was replaced with a legal one. So there is a precedent for letting them continue.

Isn't VOR having money problems? Is this likely to be the last running? fwiw...

Mike,
The rule doesn't limit how many rudders the boat carries onboard, it limits how many they can use overall.

I can see there being a limit on how many rudders they use overall because damaged rudders are slower than brand new rudders. Just like there is a limit on how many sails they can use overall. There is a strong resource allocation component to the race. They can't just build a new boat for each leg, even if they got the money and will to do so.

I thought the video said that the rudders did measure in. I would let them run them with a small dockage of points.

isn't this after they were caught with extra sails???

pattern of deception here...

http://www.sailingworld.com/volvo-ocean-race/sail-gate-telefonicas-pending-case

The rule is there to control costs, if you can only have a limited number of spares then you are more likely to build the ones you have so that they don't break...

A rudder on a VO70 would cost more than a new f18.... So they try to encourage teams to make them last.

Big difference between replacing the whole boat vs. the rudders.

Several things have been challenged in protests during this running (with no penalty). I just can't see them penalizing for this, especially at this stage of the race, with the points so close. Would be completely suicidal for relations with fans of the race.

Just my two cents anyway...

Mike

The Jury has spoken. Telefonica can use the new rudders if they take a one place penalty in every leg they race with them... Suddenly, they think the rudders they have can be repaired rather than use new ones... Odd how that works.

I'm just going to go under the boat to see if I can repair the old one...but I'm going to take this illegal replacement "just in case" I need it...and we'll probably need to look at it again before we get into port to make sure everything is OK.

HMMM-KAY...

This is the actual decision, which helps us get in the jury's head a bit:
http://noticeboard.volvooceanrace.c...l-Case-9-Telefonica-rudders-revised3.pdf

The issue is that the replacement rudders do not meet the "like for like" requirement, which is above and beyond the class rules.

This is a tough call, but makes a lot of sense. The jury admits that they don't believe there would be a performance advantage to using the replacement rudders, but would be foolish to allow their use, only to be proven wrong later.

In the first post here, it was stated that rudders were "lost" which would make repair not an option. Since they have two weeks to repair them (and apparently, none were actually lost), I'm sure that repairing them won't be an issue (looking back at all the other miraculous repairs that have been done throughout this race with shorter timelines and remote locations).

Mike