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~Twin mast catamaran~ #252110
09/09/12 04:58 AM
09/09/12 04:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 119
Bernhards Bay, N.Y.
popeyez7 Offline OP
member
popeyez7  Offline OP
member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 119
Bernhards Bay, N.Y.
~ Wadda ya think ??
http://youtu.be/0FQPgC8jgBY


~~Don't fear the ''SPEED''~~ Fear the''ADDICTION''
~17,18 Hobies,
~Jet boat~Speedster 150
~2 Kayaks~
~~~~VIETNAM VET. 69-71~~~~
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: popeyez7] #252123
09/09/12 03:49 PM
09/09/12 03:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Looks neet. Pete Goss did it with his Team Philips back in year 2000, but the bows kept breaking off!

Here's another twin masted cat;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY0ssDA70gY&feature=related


Blade F16
#777
Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: popeyez7] #252126
09/09/12 06:38 PM
09/09/12 06:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
Pooh-Bah
arbo06  Offline
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South Florida & the Keys
Less wind aloft, sailing really flat and stable. Cool!


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: popeyez7] #252127
09/09/12 10:11 PM
09/09/12 10:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Yeah, if you look closely at the bows of the cat vid. I posted above, you'll see they are shaped like the hulls on a float plane, fat and flat forward, with a step half way back. They are designed to be sailed flat, on two hulls, and get up on the 'step' to plane as soon as possible, and reduce drag that way, rather than by flying one hull. BUT...in light air, I think those hulls would be very slow.


Blade F16
#777
Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: Timbo] #252142
09/10/12 09:23 AM
09/10/12 09:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Naples, FL
wonder if the leeward sails get any spoil from the windward set, or if they're creating some sort of slot between the two?

Who was that team in the Volvo race with the fully rotating wing sails on their multihull? Broke apart before the race in a gale if memory serves?


Jay

Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: waterbug_wpb] #252147
09/10/12 11:36 AM
09/10/12 11:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
you are thinking of Team Philips that Pete Goss put together for "The Race". That boat broke up in a storm mid-Atlantic in 2000.


Jake Kohl
Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: Jake] #252158
09/10/12 01:44 PM
09/10/12 01:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
yes. that's the one. It looked like it had a lot of potential (unstayed mast allowed for feathering at any angle)

I wonder if that design will ever get resurrected with newer engineering design and construction...


Jay

Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: popeyez7] #252160
09/10/12 02:01 PM
09/10/12 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.


Blade F16
#777
Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: Timbo] #252220
09/12/12 01:45 AM
09/12/12 01:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 208
D
DHO Offline
enthusiast
DHO  Offline
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D

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Posts: 208
This might be a better way to do things. I'm thinking the two masts might be better than one big one. You can get twice the sail area with less heeling force. The center of effort from the sailplan is kept lower. The two masts were used on the Hobie Trifoiler and the proa Crossbow.

Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: popeyez7] #252221
09/12/12 03:24 AM
09/12/12 03:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
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+31NL
Personally I think it looks more like the old Hydraplaneur than Team Philips.
It once set a 24hr speed record for boats under 60ft with an average of nearly 25kts over 24h!
Not sure what happened to her, I remember something about a capsize somewhere mid-atlantic.

[Linked Image]




Last edited by Tony_F18; 09/12/12 03:25 AM.
Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: Tony_F18] #252226
09/12/12 08:37 AM
09/12/12 08:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Hydraplanuer also had the single handed speed record for a short time as well (that might be the record you are talking about though). It was a cool boat. I think Eeves gave up on it after that capsize.


Jake Kohl
Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: DHO] #252230
09/12/12 08:54 AM
09/12/12 08:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Originally Posted by DHO
This might be a better way to do things. I'm thinking the two masts might be better than one big one. You can get twice the sail area with less heeling force. The center of effort from the sailplan is kept lower. The two masts were used on the Hobie Trifoiler and the proa Crossbow.


If you just want straight up speed, in big air, yes. I don't think a similar scaled down design would work for what we do, ie. buoy racing over many different wind ranges. The tall rigs (think A cat) help get one hull out of the water in lighter air to reduce drag.

If you are going to design to keep both hulls in the water and use two shorter rigs, it will be a pig in light to medium wind.

I once witnessed a Hobie Tri Foiler regatta in light air (at Wildcat, many years ago) it was not pretty!

The A cats and all the other cats were going by them, they were nearly stopped. Never did see one up on the foils.

Maybe there is someone here who owned one and can tell us how much wind it took to get it up on the foils and go fast?


Blade F16
#777
Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: popeyez7] #252233
09/12/12 09:14 AM
09/12/12 09:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
Timbo,
I sail a trifoiler a good bit and can tell you it is a pig in light air and doesn't go up wind worth a sheet, but it ain't no catamaran, so not a fair comparison. Now, when it's blowin' the thing is a blast gybing downwind on foils. G-forces in the turn that will scare you. That's about the only time it is a fun ride.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: popeyez7] #252234
09/12/12 09:22 AM
09/12/12 09:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Thanks for the input Philip. That's what I thought and I would love to have one for the few really windy days I see here on my little inland lake, it looks like it would be a hoot!

But I thought DHO was thinking it might be "...a better way to do things..."

I'm not sure if he meant going faster, easier, in the around the cans racing we do, or if he meant just going faster in any direction (downwind mostly, but it sucks getting home!)

DHO?


Blade F16
#777
Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: Timbo] #252577
09/23/12 01:14 AM
09/23/12 01:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
old hand
davefarmer  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
Jonathan has brought his Trifoiler down to Flathead Lake a number of times over the last few years. He says it needs 15 plus to get up on the foils and stay there. Not a lot of fun if not on the foils, big fun when it is. Really a reaching and downwind machine.

Dave

Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: popeyez7] #252652
09/24/12 01:50 PM
09/24/12 01:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 144
Near SLC, Utah
tomthouse Offline
member
tomthouse  Offline
member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 144
Near SLC, Utah

Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: popeyez7] #252654
09/24/12 01:53 PM
09/24/12 01:53 PM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M



it seems to me that the windward sail would be grossly disturbing the air to lee mast/sail

Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: popeyez7] #256230
01/13/13 11:01 AM
01/13/13 11:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
S
sully3 Offline
stranger
sully3  Offline
stranger
S

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Does anyone know of a trifoiler that is for sale? I solo-sail a 17 but the trifoiler looks really fun as a speed rush.

Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: ] #256233
01/13/13 12:27 PM
01/13/13 12:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
old hand
davefarmer  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
Flight Risk served a breif stint as a test platform for a biplane rig when the previous owner wanted to test the concept in advance of designing a 60' cruising cat. Upwind powered both sails well, broad reaching was fine, dead downwind allowed the sails to be deployed outboard on opposing sides of the boat, leaving the tramp area amazingly open. On a beam reach, and maybe 20 degrees above and below, the windward rig did indeed shadow the leeward sail, which just fell gently inboard and sat there quietly. As a beam reach is a fairly fast point of sail for a catamaran, losing the power of 1 rig was not real annoying, the boat maintained about the same speed as going upwind. The owners conclusion was that the biplane rig, with no headsails, was really a fine solution for shorthanded sail handling aboard a big cruiser. No headsails to mess with, quite easy to reef the leeward sail while on a beam reach. If each sail had 2 reef points there were 5 configurations of decreasing sail area. When I bought the boat I returned it to its original sloop rig, with assym spin and roller furling screacher, significantly more sail area, complexity, and the ability to fly a hull, which I love to do. I'm not sure if that particular rush could be produced with a biplane rig. But it could be fairly high performance if designed as such, with headsails and sufficient sail area overall.


Dave

Re: ~Twin mast catamaran~ [Re: popeyez7] #256249
01/14/13 08:43 AM
01/14/13 08:43 AM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M



great info, thanks Dave


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