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Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! #252502
09/19/12 04:43 PM
09/19/12 04:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
AzCat Offline OP
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AzCat  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
I'm getting new sails for my nacra 20 need to know if anybody has some opinions on crosscut or radial cut mainsail.
N20C has the crosscut standard I think, how are they performing?


Auscat MKV 444 A class
NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252560
09/22/12 12:49 AM
09/22/12 12:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
AzCat Offline OP
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AzCat  Offline OP
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Arizona
Ummmmm.... guess nobody here has an opinion. How odd.
Thats OK, their on their way.


Auscat MKV 444 A class
NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA
Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252561
09/22/12 01:34 AM
09/22/12 01:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
Maybe nobody has experience with them here on the list. I did see a few at OCR in Miami a few years ago. As well as a few boats in Texas, including one N20 in the GT300 a few years ago. It looked great. I guess if they use the right material, they are fast.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252563
09/22/12 07:32 AM
09/22/12 07:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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bacho  Offline
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Greenville SC
I am thinking your choice of the right sail maker and using whatever they suggest would be the ticket. I just had new sails built by smyth for my 20, he chose a radial cut.

Call whoever you are planning to use and ask them their thoughts. Then report back.

Last edited by bacho; 09/22/12 07:34 AM.
Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252564
09/22/12 07:54 AM
09/22/12 07:54 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
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West coast of Norway
Unless the cloth is similar to Contender Maxx or Bainbridge Diax I would definately go for radial/tri-radial in a cat mainsail.

Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252565
09/22/12 08:12 AM
09/22/12 08:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
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Posts: 2,921
Michigan
I think that crosscut may be the way to go in the future. The new crosscut laminates are pretty good. Less waste and less labor to make them as well

Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252575
09/22/12 10:54 PM
09/22/12 10:54 PM

S
Scarecrow
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Scarecrow
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S



I spoke to Landy quite a bit about this before ordering my new main and again at a resent coaching day he conducted here in Melbourne. Generally speaking he was more than happy to make me a sail out of any of Radial, Cross cut or string (which is still cross cut). For the Taipan his first offer was a radial sail as this is what he had most recently been building (one of his radials was used by Chris Boag to win the 2012 Nationals). However at the time I was leaning towards a cross cut as I blieved there would be a small weight saving and maybe a longer life and he was more than happy to build one (he has since won the A Class Euros with a cross cut sail) My understanding is that the labor cost in building the simpler cross cut sail is more than offset by the additional cost of the material. So if you buy a radial sail the extra cost goes towards your sail maker's wages or if you go cross cut Contender or Dimension make more money, for you the consumer, there is no real difference.

The third option and the one I went with as buying a fixer upper left me some space in the boat budget was a string sail. From a construction point of view this is almost identical to a cross cut but your sail maker gets to specify the fibre types and directions. These are becoming very popular in A classes but reports have been that some of the sails (mainly the ones using Carbon Fibres) are too stiff and basically don't respond to adjusting cunningham etc. Landy makes his quite a bit softer and to date I have been very happy with my ability to change gears with the sail (although I'm still on a learning curve being new to Taipans).

[Linked Image]

Attached Files
string.jpg (266 downloads)
Last edited by Scarecrow; 09/22/12 10:55 PM.
Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252582
09/23/12 10:15 AM
09/23/12 10:15 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
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West coast of Norway
Hello Scarecrow,

was there a major price difference between radial and string?
What will the sailmaker actually do with his hands when building a sail like this? Design and fiber layout and perhaps finishing with batten pockets and fittings, edge tape etc?
Is there now one big manufacturer building string sails at a large facility or is this also done in the workshop of local sailmakers?


I had no idea that string sails now are becoming accessible by catsailors with normal budgets.

For me the big thing about crosscut and modern laminates is that I can quite easily assemble sail myself.

Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252587
09/23/12 03:32 PM
09/23/12 03:32 PM

S
Scarecrow
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Scarecrow
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S



String sail was about 10% more. This isn't a moulded sail so the sail maker still has to do exactly the same on the loft floor as with any cross cut sail to get the desired shape.

I'm not sure how many manufactures of the custom cloth there are (which is all this is) but most big lofts can either do it in house or like the smaler ones smaller ones can order from I believe at least two suppliers.

Last edited by Scarecrow; 09/23/12 04:05 PM.
Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252598
09/24/12 02:05 AM
09/24/12 02:05 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Hi again,

are you saying that the sail in your picture does not have continous fibers? I understand that mylar panels recieve broadseaming and is assembled. But are the fibers then applied to the cloth, or are the fibers applied before the panels are assembled?

UK Sailmakers had a system where they assembled the panels before applying the fibers with a tool made of 5 tape dispensers. A down to earth solution and all sailmakers with a license could do it.


Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252602
09/24/12 03:53 AM
09/24/12 03:53 AM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



Dam, just typed a reply then lost it. Here comes the short version:

Sail cloth is made on a machine like this to a layout as designed by your sailmaker, then sent to them to broad seam and detail. So yes despite the apparence in the photo, the threads are broken at the seams.

Given my main was made in Landy's German loft, it is probably safe to say the material was made by Dimension-Polyant, but I thought he mentioned something being done in Italy.

Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252606
09/24/12 04:15 AM
09/24/12 04:15 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
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West coast of Norway
Sounds like a win-win-win situation! "Cloth" manufacturer wins, sailmaker wins and sailor wins.

Of course it would be "better" with continous fibers but hey, the stiffness of the seams is probably more than adequate and sail is lighter and perhaps easier to trim?

When will this be transferred to spis.. wink

Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #252607
09/24/12 04:31 AM
09/24/12 04:31 AM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
When will this be transferred to spis.. wink


Good luck with that!

I haven't sailed for 4-5 years, have no Taipan experiance but have only been totally destroyed in one race out of the five I've done (this weekend in 0-3 knots) so the sail obviously isn't slow. Now if I could get race fit by calling someone and sending them a cheque, I might do ok this season.

Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252612
09/24/12 08:47 AM
09/24/12 08:47 AM

M
MN3
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MN3
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Very recently i purchased a cross cut main for my 5.5 .
Flex Technora II.

I chose it because of it's light weight, cost (was under $1400), supposed durability (we will see) and I have a friend that used that material and likes it.

Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: ] #252614
09/24/12 08:54 AM
09/24/12 08:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
Originally Posted by Scarecrow
so the sail obviously isn't slow.


I would say it very often isn't the sail to blame for being "slow"... unless you're REALLY good at everything else involved (course, transitions, weight placement, rudder, hull trim, rig & mast setting, etc)


Jay

Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252639
09/24/12 12:41 PM
09/24/12 12:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 195
White Bear Lake, MN
h17racer Offline
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White Bear Lake, MN
MN#, 5.5 Uni or sloop? Have you sailed with it yet and impressions?

Who was your sailmaker?

Thanks, TG

Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: h17racer] #252651
09/24/12 01:48 PM
09/24/12 01:48 PM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by h17racer
MN#, 5.5 Uni or sloop? Have you sailed with it yet and impressions?
Who was your sailmaker?
Thanks, TG


Sloop - modeled from an f18 sail (mkII) with 3" added to the leach (edit: i sail a Mystere 5.5, usually solo. i will furl the jib if very overpowered)
sailed it 7 times now, love it. seems faster downwind with same effort (compared to my f18 sails, but seems more sensitive to tuning upwind).

I sailed very fast this past weekend (against my usual friends). Either i was tuning my boat and sails better, or my friends were slower

Doyle made it, i am very happy with their product... will report back after 300 days of Florida sun (2 years)

Last edited by MN3; 09/24/12 01:50 PM.
Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #252658
09/24/12 04:29 PM
09/24/12 04:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
Aido Offline
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Aido  Offline
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Brisveagas
The Continuous fibre story is basically a sales pitch used mostly by the Norths and UK lofts.

It really does not make a difference in reality. The Norths and UK continuous fibre sails have been "continuously" smoked in big boat racing like the TP 52s, STP65s and even the AC 45s. Proving the continuous fibre story is a load of BS. You actually find Norths are cutting and joining some their string sails now to get a decent shape.


Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
Sounds like a win-win-win situation! "Cloth" manufacturer wins, sailmaker wins and sailor wins.

Of course it would be "better" with continous fibers but hey, the stiffness of the seams is probably more than adequate and sail is lighter and perhaps easier to trim?

When will this be transferred to spis.. wink


Aido
Viper 288
Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: AzCat] #252662
09/24/12 06:45 PM
09/24/12 06:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
Aido Offline
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Aido  Offline
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Brisveagas
By the way your new taipan main rates very highly on the coolness scale scarecrow. It looks great. And that's 50 % of the battle in my book.


Aido
Viper 288
Re: Cross cut Mylar vs radial cut mylar. GO! [Re: waterbug_wpb] #252663
09/24/12 06:49 PM
09/24/12 06:49 PM

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Scarecrow
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Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I would say it very often isn't the sail to blame for being "slow"... unless you're REALLY good at everything else involved (course, transitions, weight placement, rudder, hull trim, rig & mast setting, etc)


That's my point, if I can still be competitive while working out how to do all this in a new class at a new location the sail must be a goer.

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