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curved dagger boards #255451
12/04/12 07:43 AM
12/04/12 07:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Interesting points on the agenda of the WC-meeting in Paris mid December are the permission to use GPS devices and a discussion concerning handicap for curved dagger boards.
Which are your positions concerning these matters?

Kai


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Baltic] #255454
12/04/12 08:16 AM
12/04/12 08:16 AM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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I think a list of approved GPS devices is a good idea, at the moment magnetic sailing compasses are more expensive than their GPS counterparts anyway (Tacktick etc).

Not aware that there are any F18s with curved foils.
With boats are expensive enough as they are and declining fleets I'm not sure if that is the way to go.

Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Tony_F18] #255456
12/04/12 08:40 AM
12/04/12 08:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
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K

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tampa, fl
With regards to GPS enabled devises.....things like the Speedpuck will not change the game. The guys at the front of the fleet will be the same guys whether or not they are using one. Same for the mid fleet and back of the fleet groups. Personally, I tried sailing with a tack tick for a while. While racing though, I hardly ever looked at it. After a tangle with the spin sheet, it went over board. Never bothered to replace it. Results certainly have not changed as a result.

Curved daggerboards are another story. The council could, potentially, make every F-18 currently sailing obsolete. If they want to bring about the end to the class, then go ahead and approved curved boards. Personally, I think it would be crazy to approve. If there are sailors out there that want to sail boats with curved foils, go by an A-cat, F-17, or Nacra F20. Leave the F-18's out of that game.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Baltic] #255468
12/04/12 11:45 AM
12/04/12 11:45 AM
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Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
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Jeff.Dusek Offline
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The USF18 Exec is currently looking over that agenda, there are definitely some interesting points.

As far as the curved daggerboards, it would be nice to see the actual proposal as I'm not entirely sure what they are actually suggesting!


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Baltic] #255473
12/04/12 01:40 PM
12/04/12 01:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
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Solomon's Island, MD
GPS should be allowed, that rule is a bit silly. Won't change a darn thing, the pros will still be pros.

+1 on the curved daggerboards, need to see the proposal. Actually I'd like to see the boat!


Scorpion F18
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: samc99us] #255474
12/04/12 02:19 PM
12/04/12 02:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
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ksurfer2  Offline
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tampa, fl
You can see the boat. Check this out. But please....DO NOT make it F-18 class legal!!!!

http://www.catsailingnews.com/2012/10/low-flying-phantom.html


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Baltic] #255475
12/04/12 02:43 PM
12/04/12 02:43 PM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Seen that particular cat up close but apart from the hulls there is little F18 about it (3m wide, carbon mast, foils, etc).

Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Baltic] #255476
12/04/12 03:16 PM
12/04/12 03:16 PM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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That's the GC32 prototype. Agreed its not a F18.


Scorpion F18
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Baltic] #255477
12/04/12 04:00 PM
12/04/12 04:00 PM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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I think the proposed marketing plan is interesting and quite ambitious, trying to develop F18 into a sort of brand.

Not sure if there is an audience for F18 branded items though, but I could be wrong.

Re: curved dagger boards [Re: ksurfer2] #255485
12/05/12 09:03 AM
12/05/12 09:03 AM
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Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Originally Posted by ksurfer2
If there are sailors out there that want to sail boats with curved foils, go by an A-cat, F-17, or Nacra F20.

Leave the F-18's out of that game.


Would this then doom the F-18 design to obsolescence?

Sort of like when the N20 rule kept an outdated sailplan?

But I guess there are still many huge fleets of outdated designs (laser, Opti, Star, 420, etc)

Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 12/05/12 09:03 AM.

Jay

Re: curved dagger boards [Re: waterbug_wpb] #255491
12/05/12 10:25 AM
12/05/12 10:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
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K

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tampa, fl
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
[quote=ksurfer2]
Would this then doom the F-18 design to obsolescence?


F-18 was never meant to be cutting edge. It was meant to provide a level playing field between manufacturers with controlled development that would keep it "affordable" to the sailors. So far, that plan has worked brilliantly.

F-18's could be built full carbon, carbon spars and beams, curved foils, etc. but that would defeat the purpose of the class. If that's the kind of boat you want to sail, go buy a Marstrom 20. That is not what F-18's are meant to be.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: waterbug_wpb] #255492
12/05/12 10:41 AM
12/05/12 10:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by ksurfer2
If there are sailors out there that want to sail boats with curved foils, go by an A-cat, F-17, or Nacra F20.

Leave the F-18's out of that game.


Would this then doom the F-18 design to obsolescence?

Sort of like when the N20 rule kept an outdated sailplan?

But I guess there are still many huge fleets of outdated designs (laser, Opti, Star, 420, etc)


Jay, the N20 didn't die because of the "outdated" sail plan! If that were true we should have seen the N20 resurrected from the ashes when the p-cola group created a new class allowing sail plan development. You also need to ask yourself why the F20C class hasn't blown up.

Many consider the F18 obsolete right now and so freaking what! I didn't join the F18 class because of its light weight and carbon fiber!

Like Karl said there are several curved dagger board options out there, leave the F18 alone. I for one feel very comfortable that straight daggerboards will NOT be the classes downfall. When racing class do we really give a sh!t if we don't have the latest go fast gizmo? There is a lot to be said for stability. When someone lays down 20K+ for brand new boat only to find out that they need to upgrade their boards at the tune of another $2400 can get you thinking, is this class worth the expense?

We also need to ask ourselves who is bringing the proposal forward, who do they work for and are they really considering the impact to the weekend warrior, which by the way is the core of the class. What is good for the pro's can often be at the expense of the amateur.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Baltic] #255493
12/05/12 10:46 AM
12/05/12 10:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
J
Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Boston, Ma
I put together a poll for the Eastern Area F18 group that addresses the proposals on the agenda. Mike and I are trying to get it circulated amongst the other areas as well. If you are a US F18 sailor, please fill it out and pass it along to your fleet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dEdPZ2UzdFVncTVBWmFocXpwYVJRNUE6MQ#gid=0


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #255494
12/05/12 10:56 AM
12/05/12 10:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Jeff.Dusek
I put together a poll for the Eastern Area F18 group that addresses the proposals on the agenda. Mike and I are trying to get it circulated amongst the other areas as well. If you are a US F18 sailor, please fill it out and pass it along to your fleet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dEdPZ2UzdFVncTVBWmFocXpwYVJRNUE6MQ#gid=0



Jeff,

The first question under F18 Branding needs a "none of the above" option.

Dave


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Baltic] #255496
12/05/12 10:59 AM
12/05/12 10:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
J
Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Jeff.Dusek  Offline
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Boston, Ma
Dave, good point! I will edit.

-done

Last edited by Jeff.Dusek; 12/05/12 11:00 AM.

USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #255498
12/05/12 12:02 PM
12/05/12 12:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Done, and thank you for putting that together. It's a very efficient to get a read on the fleet.



David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Baltic] #255499
12/05/12 12:39 PM
12/05/12 12:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Is there a way to see the results of the poll?

Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Baltic] #255501
12/05/12 01:15 PM
12/05/12 01:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
J
Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Jeff.Dusek  Offline
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Boston, Ma
Results are available for the USF18 exec. I will summarize the results after the international meeting.


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #255504
12/05/12 02:44 PM
12/05/12 02:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
interesting question posted about making the F18 website commercial.

What kind of revenue projection would something like that have, and where would the money go? What qualifies an advertiser? Russian Brides come to mind...


Jay

Re: curved dagger boards [Re: Baltic] #255507
12/05/12 08:45 PM
12/05/12 08:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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If it involves a donkey and a midget, I'm in.


I'm boatless.
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