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Hobie Fx #25564
10/28/03 04:49 PM
10/28/03 04:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 14
D
dougmg Offline OP
stranger
dougmg  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 14
Anyone know a place in the Sarasota/Tampa area where I could try a Hobie FX. I am thinking of buying one. Any used for sale?

What do you all think of the boat?

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Hobie Fx [Re: dougmg] #25565
10/28/03 05:26 PM
10/28/03 05:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 95
Flensburg, Germany
Fritz Offline
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Fritz  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 95
Flensburg, Germany
It is a perfect single handed boat, robust as a Hobie and pretty fast, almost able to get airborne with the gennaker.
And I would like to say easier to handle than a HC 17 when on the beach.

Re: Hobie Fx - mystery weight [Re: Fritz] #25566
10/28/03 06:00 PM
10/28/03 06:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 390
samevans Offline
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Posts: 390
I don't understand why people keep saying that the FX-1 is so much lighter than the Hobie 17 SE.
The class weight for a Hobie 17 is 330lbs (149.7kg) with wings. At the Mega last year, several boats were even less.

According to the Hobie Europe website, the FX-1 with ONLY a mainsail (no wings) weighs 140kg(308.65lbs).
With main & spi(no wings), 148kg (326.28lbs)

The Hobie U.S. website simply list the FX-1 as "weight: 275lbs".
It lists a "gennaker", "Jib kit", and "Spinnaker kit" as "Optional Features"

There are three different wing designs:
The "Sport Wing" is actually just a short rack, no fabric, which widens the boat by 12 inches on each side and weighs 10lbs each.
The "Comfort Wing" is similar to the "Sport Wing", but larger and has fabric to sit on and increases the beam by 24 inches on each side and weighs 18lbs each.
The "Classic Wing" is very similar to the Hobie 18 SX wing and are as comfortable as the H17 wings.
It increases the beam by 24inchs on each side and weighs 29lbs each.

So according to EuroHobie, an FX-1 with a spi and "Sport Wings" would weigh 346.28lbs.
With "Classic Wings" would weigh 384.28lbs!!!!

I saw the FX-1 at the Mega last year and tried to pick it up. It felt every bit as heavy as my H17.

WHAT IS THE TRUE WEIGHT OF THE THING?

Re: Hobie Fx - mystery weight [Re: samevans] #25567
10/28/03 06:15 PM
10/28/03 06:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 914
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Online content
old hand
Dermot  Online Content
old hand

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Dublin, Ireland
The SCHRS handicap site, www.schrs.com, lists the FX-1 at 153kg. That's heavy for a singlehander.


Dermot
Catapult 265
www.catamaran.ie
Re: Hobie Fx - mystery weight [Re: Dermot] #25568
10/28/03 08:38 PM
10/28/03 08:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 14
D
dougmg Offline OP
stranger
dougmg  Offline OP
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That is true, there are two listed weights, 275 and 325. Would the jib package weigh 50 lbs?

Re: Hobie Fx - mystery weight [Re: dougmg] #25569
10/28/03 11:19 PM
10/28/03 11:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 54
Panama City Beach, FL
Sunjammers Offline
journeyman
Sunjammers  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 54
Panama City Beach, FL
We have a FX-1 in Panama City we could probably arrange for a ride one. It has a jib and spinnaker. Please contact me at the shop if you would like to make an arrangement 850-235-2281


Thanks,
Brad Stephens
Authorized Hobie/Vanguard Dealer
www.sunjammers.com
info@sunjammers.com
850-235-2281
Panama City Beach, FL


Thanks,
Brad Stephens
Panama City Beach, FL
Re: Hobie Fx [Re: dougmg] #25570
10/29/03 12:00 AM
10/29/03 12:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 167
St Croix Virgin Islands
vicatman Offline
member
vicatman  Offline
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Posts: 167
St Croix Virgin Islands
I've had mine about a year and a halp...have had a great time with it....with the normal wind and sea here the wide platform is really nice....it handles the 2-4ft rollers very well....

Attached Files
When asked about ... Hobie replied [Re: dougmg] #25571
10/29/03 05:16 AM
10/29/03 05:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

A while back there was a posting on this forum (or the other open forum) that described that when hobie corp was asked about the quoted "weight = 275 lbs / 125 kg " statement in their brochures, Hobie replied that that refers to the optimal crewweight for the FX-one.

I will believe Hobie corp on anything they say but would take up in my buying contract that the sale is off when the boat is above 127,5 kg in weight. Just to stay good friends in the future so to say; because it is also my experience that the boat feels like 125 kg in a unconvincingly manner.

Doug, if you want I can tell you more about the FX-one as I have sailed enough to have a balanced take on it. I must however state here that I'm involved in another class which competes directly with the FX-one. Prior to starting this new class in 2001 I sailed the FX-one for the first as I was interested in buying one myself. I eventually decided against it in favour of this new class. For this reason I would like to give you my comments in private by mail if you are interested in those.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Not entirely [Re: Fritz] #25572
10/29/03 05:33 AM
10/29/03 05:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe

I'm sorry to say but the claim :"robust as a Hobie" is simply not true with respect to the FX-one.

I've put a few dents in its hulls myself and have seen how robust it trully is. It is by no means a fragile boat but the expression "robust as a Hobie" implies that it is just as tough as a H16 or TheMightyHobie18 which is not even remotely true.

Fact is that the FX-one is a foamcore laminate hull that is actually not to hard to dent. In this respect it is similar to all new cat designs and in no way is it more robust than other modern singlehanders in this segment like the Inter-17 and Taipans.

With respect to easier handling on the beach than the H17 I can say that I didn't notice any significant difference. With the exception that the round FX bottom require more care on rocky beaches where small pebbles can create dents relatively easily.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Not entirely [Re: Wouter] #25573
10/29/03 08:07 AM
10/29/03 08:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 167
St Croix Virgin Islands
vicatman Offline
member
vicatman  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 167
St Croix Virgin Islands
I have put a few dings in mine....but it is a very tough boat boat....I went for a 4 month streatch of sailing in 15-20kt wind 3-4ft roller 3 times a week....can get some good slams comming off the rollers....theres very little leakage in the hulls.I have been very pleased with it.....best thing....I can sail anytime I want...some of the guys here solo 5.8s but are limited at times by the winds..over 15...not too good an idea to solo a boat you cant rite...

Attached Files
25780-Image011.jpg (51 downloads)
That is true [Re: vicatman] #25574
10/29/03 09:16 AM
10/29/03 09:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


That is true

The FX-one proofs to hold up well under intensive use on the water.

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Hobie Fx - mystery weight [Re: samevans] #25575
10/29/03 03:39 PM
10/29/03 03:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 190
Long Island, NY
Steven Bellavia Offline
member
Steven Bellavia  Offline
member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 190
Long Island, NY
Hi,
I've had my Hobie FX-1 for two seasons now. It's a great boat both single and double-handed (much better than the Hobie 17 sport in that regard). It is definitely much easier and lighter on the land than any boat I've owned previously (Hobie 16, Nacra 5.7, Nacra 5.5SL). I've attached the weight breakdown as I've determined using bathroom scales: (Sorry, I don't have the spinnaker for those numbers).

In Summary:
Full-up uni = 313 lbs (at least that's what mny boat weighed using bathroom scales)
Jib Kit = 8 lbs additional

regards,

Steve Bellavia

P.S. - I also agree with wouter (yes, it's true) on a previous post ("Do you really want/need a jib") where he stated the FX sails very well solo with the jib - I usually sail it this way myself - glad I got the jib kit.

Attached Files
25796-Weight.txt (49 downloads)
Last edited by Steven Bellavia; 10/29/03 04:10 PM.

.
Re: Hobie Fx [Re: dougmg] #25576
10/29/03 10:07 PM
10/29/03 10:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 248
Colorado
SteveT Offline
enthusiast
SteveT  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 248
Colorado
What is the status of this class? Why aren't more people sailing them? It seems like a great boat for singlehanders and has the power of Hobie behind it. Why hasn't it replaced the H17 the way the H20 dried up the TheMightyHobie18 class?


H-20 #896
Re: Hobie Fx [Re: SteveT] #25577
10/30/03 06:13 AM
10/30/03 06:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


The class is alive and active. At leadt here in NL,but I think it suffers from high expectations just like the other new (singlehanded) classes. People today expect that each event is filled with participants but that is something that each new class has to grow into. So we arrive at a "Chicken 0r Egg" kind of problem. At this junction there is not much Hobie can do to change that unless they start giving away boats. At least that is the story overhere. Same applies to the I-17 and others.

A second reason is that alot of recreational sailors are attracted to the FX, I-17 and others; recreational sailors who for a long time stay invisible as they don't compete outside their own local races.

Also both the FX and I-17 experience alot of competition from the A-cats when it comes down to sailors who are interested in exclusive singlehanding.

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Not entirely [Re: vicatman] #25578
10/30/03 07:19 AM
10/30/03 07:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
B
brobru Offline
addict
brobru  Offline
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B

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
Hello All,

Harper and i have pulled each others boat up the beach ( with beach wheels, of course),...by ourselves,........

...the FX-1 is most definately LIGHTER than my I-17 Euro ( standard, metal mast)

...we have also helped each other with mast placement,....the FX-1 mast is real hi-tech, strong and light ( metal also).....about 20% or so lighter.........the I-17 mast is the standard Performance Mast ( metal) that ends up on most of their models,....the FX-1 mast is definately a custom job (..especially if you order the all metal one from Europe........not the comp tip job)


...the FX-1 boom is a real hi-tech one,....much like the A-cat,....strong, light, simple,....and works all the time,....the Inter boom,...is the standard issue one,...almost 50% heavier......just a old versoin ,...not alot of innovation in it.....

...in fact,..when we saw the 'new, hot' F-18 in Rolex last year,....you guessed it,...same mast and boom as the Inter non-carbon line.......

FYI.....



....go sailing,........sail what you have,....have some fun!

Bruce
St. Croix
I-17 euro

How much does you mast weight then !!?? [Re: brobru] #25579
10/30/03 10:10 AM
10/30/03 10:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Hello All,


>>> the FX-1 mast is real hi-tech, strong and light ( metal also).....about 20% or so lighter.........the I-17 mast is the standard Performance Mast ( metal) that ends up on most of their models,....the FX-1 mast is definately a custom job (..especially if you order the all metal one from Europe........not the comp tip job)



You're not saying that your I-17 alu mast is 24 kg (=53 lbs) ! are you ? Another 20 % more than the 44 lbs = 20 kg FX-mast that Steven Bellavia measured.

Man !, would you believe that the Taipan alu mast fully rigged comes out at 15,5 kg = 34 lbs. while being exactly the same length as those of the I-17 and FX-one (= 29 % less then the FX and 55 % less than the I-17 !). And it features the same mainsail area as well, without any problems. And then I still get pounded by Pieter Saarberg (carbon A-cat mast and living quite near to me) about how he can make me a F16 carbon mast for another 4 kg's less (= 25 lbs).

Now I was told by a US sailor that he found that even the Carbon I-17R mast weighted more than the Taipan mast; I thought that was hard to beleive, but now I'm starting to believe it.

Sometimes I can't hide my bewilderment about these differences.


I promised a guy to weight my rudder setup a while ago but since I have nothing to do right I will do it immediately and post it on this forum. Lets see what more we can discover.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Only fair to give my weights as well [Re: Steven Bellavia] #25580
10/30/03 12:34 PM
10/30/03 12:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Sadly I haven't got all parts in one place so I never measured the whole platform ready to sail. I haven't sailed my own F16 yet due to employment related problems but here are the measurement that I do have.

AHPC makes the hulls as 23,5 kg each mine are heavier about 25,0 kg due to he use of heavier foam (closed cel) and the raising of the mainbeam by stuffing the underside with filler and epoxy.

My rearbeam is no more than 5,0 kg fully fitted (track, car, bolts, spacers, the lot)
My mainbeam is no more than 7,0 kg fully fitted (bolts, maststep, pin, strikerstrap, end castings, etc)

Standard Taipan beams (together) fully fitted were measured at 12 kg by a friend last year.

My trampoline weights next to nothing and is significantly lighter then my P16 tramp. I haven't weigthed yet but I'll be very surprised if it comes out at more than 1.5 kg.

Therefor the platform in total weights : 63,5 kg = 140 lbs. AHPC makes them at 60,5 kg = 134 lbs

Mast section alone weights 13,5 kg = 30 lbs and fully rigged weights 15,5 kg = 34 lbs

The Carbon rudder blades, carbon rudderstocks, Carbon/glass laminate tiller bar and carbon/glass laminate tiller extension (joystick) weight in at just less than 5 kg's on my scales; lets say 5 kg to be save. Ohh, this includes the covers which proptect the rudders from damage. These are pretty light only some 300 gram in total I think so we just tuck them in with the rest. 5 Kg = 11 lbs.

My mainsail including battens and it cover (a lightweight back only a few hunderd grams extra) weights 7 kg's. It is pentex of 14,85 sq.mtr. which is exactly the same size as the Texel measurement of the FX-one. My boom is 1.5 kg's and I don't know how much my main blocks and sheet are. I have a lightweight sheet that is tapered and medium sized blocks. Lets say that the blocks and sheet weight 1,5 kg in total ? Therfor my setup mainsail+blocks+battens+bag+sheet = 10 kg = 22 lbs. About the same as the FX-one which is what I would expect.

Daggerboards. I had trouble weighting them as they become very light. For this reason I can't get the Rudderblade weight individually, only the total weight of the whole setup. Anyways the boards including the protetion guard (again this doesn't weight that much only a few hundred grams) came out at just over 4 kg's lets say 4,5 to be save. 4.5 kg's = 10 lbs PER PAIR or 5 lbs per board+cover.

I can choose dyform rigging for my stays but I don't see the point. Dyform is more sensitive to abuse and the weight savings are pretty small. Also the smaller diameter dyform is a real b'stard when you hit them during a pitchpole. I rather have the 4 mm 1x19 wires that the FX-one uses as well. I haven't weight my setup but I don't expect it to be less in weight that those of the FX-one ; so 5 lbs it is.

F16 (Taipan based) 140 lbs Basic Platform (Hulls, Crossbar, Trampoline) FX-one = 198 lbs
F16 (Taipan based) 34 lbs Mast (With spreaders and main halyard) FX-one = 44 lbs
F16 (Taipan based) 11 lbs Steering System (Rudders, pins, slave bar, tiller ext)FX-one = 25 lbs
F16 (Taipan based) 22 lbs Mainsail (w/ battens, boom, mainsheet& block, cunningham) FX-one = 21 lbs
F16 (Taipan based) 10 lbs Dagger Boards FX-one = 20 lbs
F16 (Taipan based) 5 lbs Rigging (Sidestays, forestay, 1 trapeze set) FX-one = 5 lbs


Total FX-one 313 lbs ; adding all the parts of the my setup gives = 222 lbs = 100.5 kg = say 101 kg ex the spinnaker equipment and ex jib equipment. This is 4 kilograms overweight with respect to the AHPC Taipan 4.9 catrigged minimum. With the jib ( not furling = 2.5 kg = 7 lbs) and (manual) spi setups (spi = 5 kg = 11 lbs) onboard I come out at 240 lbs = 109 kg overall. To be save I again round off upwards and assume my platform to be 110 kg which is 3 kilogram (= 6 lbs) overweight with respect to the F16 minimum sloop rigged weight of 107 kg.

I broke even on the beams despite the fact they are longer than on the standard T4.9 and I won something on the lightweight rudder setup. A standard Taipan 4.9 sloop-rigged-no-spi-setup is delivered at 102 kg sharp; the proof is in the RC measurements of the boats at the 2001, 2002, 2003 Taipan nationals).

From the comparison we can see which the big winners are :

Hulls 58 lbs lighter = 100% - 140/198 = 30 % less
mast 10 lbs lighter = 23 % less
steering system 14 lbs lighter = 56 % less
Mainsail boom etc say 0 lbs = no difference
Daggerboards 10 lbs lighter = 50 % less

Platform total 58 lbs less ; mast steering etc total 34 lbs less

Total less 92 lbs or 42 kg = 222/313 (cat rigged versions) = 70,9 % = 71 % = 29 % less overall.

And my complete carbon rudder setup costed me 1250 Aus$ ex shipping ex tax = about 750 US$ (ex tax ex ship) for the whole lot so the guys telling everybody that carbon is expensive are being duped by their suppliers. Or at least the arms race that I'm involved in is saving me money. The boards ex tax ex shipping costed me about 300 US$.

All these measurements were taking using a bathroom scale. In case of the mainsail I stood on the scale and held the mainsail and its sack horizontally in my arms, later I subtracted the weight the scale gave when I only was on the scale . Same with the daggerboard although I was able to stack these with the ruddersetup as well. Both approached resulted in the same values.

I will now go to my local supermarket and lay the rudder boards on their digital vegtable scales. These are accurate to the gram.


Wouter












Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
I'm back from the supermarket and there scales say [Re: Wouter] #25581
10/30/03 03:02 PM
10/30/03 03:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
We're talking about the ruddersetup as soon in the attachment which is linked to this post. (Picture doesn't show the laminated cross tiller bar and joystick; picture was taken by Jennifer Lindsay Taipan 221 Florida)

I'm back from the supermarket and there scales say : (these babies give measurements to the gram and are used to weight the vegtables and other stuff that the customer can measure off themselfs. They are regulary checked and tuned by a government controlled agency. These are electracle scales which are know to be very dependable)

The results :

I was wrong with my estimate of 1.5 kg for the trampoline ; it was actually 1,718 grams or 218 grams more than I said. With this the platform weight becomes 63,7 kg instead of the 63,5 kg that I gave earlier, halve a lbs more. Neglectable, indeed. Try to picture this weight guys, this is the same as a pot of thee.

Onto the next items

Rudder set

Rudderblade = 1.086 kg = 1086 grams = 2.4 lbs
Rudderstock = 0.526 kg = 536 grams = 1.16 lbs = just over a lbs
kick-up rod = 0.156 kg = 156 grams = 0.34 lbs = 1/3 rd of a lbs

total = 1,778 kg per side = 3,9 lbs = a shy 4 lbs => 3.556 kg per pair = 7,85 lbs.

I didn't measure the tillercrossbar and the joystick as these were to long (joystick = 9 ft). Still 1kg - 1.5 kg for them both combined feels right, My alu P16 crosstillerbar alone weights only 900 grams = 0.9 kg itself and the laminate one is are lighter. The joystick is a little lighter than the tillerbar. Maybe the whole setup is rather 3.5 + 1 = 4,5 kg = 10 lbs the than 5 kg = 11 lbs I used earlier but we're playing it save here and my bath room scale is not accurate to the 100 grams, I think. Anyway next time the supermarket scales aren't in a corner I will try to measure them too.


Daggerboard = 1.930 kg = 1930 grams = 4,26 lbs = just over 4 lbs. Per pair they are 3.86 kg = 8.5 lbs. So with the bath room scales I was pretty accurate at 10 lbs = 4.5 kg; still they are a little lighter. Together they are 8,5 lbs instead of the rounded off 10 lbs. This more then corrects for my 0.5 lbs mistake at the trampoline.

Now we have established that my bathroom scales are pretty accurate when the right methode is used I will now weight my Prindle 16 rudder board and casting.

3 P16 rudders held together are 8 kg = 2,667 kg per board = 5.88 lbs = say 6 lbs.
The casting is as good as 1 kg = 2,2 lbs

Together they are 8,1 lbs.

So only 1 P16/P18 rudderboard and 1 prindle casting (no crossbars, joysticks etc) weight about as much as the whole steering setup I've got.

Price of one rudder and one casting overhere where I live ; 360 + 340 Euro's = 700 euro's = 750 US$ at this time. For compete ruddersetup you need 2 of these = 1500 US$ + tiller and joystick = + 105 Euro's + 100 Euro = + 230 US$: total = 1730 US$ . Deduct taxes = 1730 US$ / 1.19 = 1453 US$ ex tax

So with the numbers I gave in my other post for my setup (750 US$ for all ex tax) I have hless than halve the weight for halve the cost of a P16 ruddersetup.

Wouter


Attached Files

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: I'm back from the supermarket and there scales say [Re: Wouter] #25582
10/30/03 04:27 PM
10/30/03 04:27 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
MauganN20  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
wouter:

the tornado mast that I'm buying, weights in at 33lbs.

I'd wager to say that its quite a bit longer than yours too :P

Oh, and kevlar spreaders.. does that make you giddy or what?

Enough bragging though, thats impressive about your rudder setup. $750 is quite a bit, but still cheaper than the hobie counterpart. Well worth it no doubt.


Re: I'm back from the supermarket and there scales say [Re: MauganN20] #25583
10/30/03 04:38 PM
10/30/03 04:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I'm going to weigh my Nacra 6.0NA mast this weekend and blow you guys all away with how heavy that SOB is.


Jake Kohl
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