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Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255919
12/29/12 03:52 PM
12/29/12 03:52 PM
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pgp Offline
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I often sail the cat on one hull. I was really thinking of the amas as training wheels, like on a bicycle.

Last edited by pgp; 12/29/12 03:53 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

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Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255920
12/29/12 04:27 PM
12/29/12 04:27 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

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So the target would be to sail the tri on the center hull only?

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255921
12/29/12 05:39 PM
12/29/12 05:39 PM
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WEST. MICH. USA
DVL Offline
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Rolf,any information you can share about your CNC build. I would like the information for the FIRST Robotics team I am on. It would be nice to build a CNC to teach the youth programming and manufacturing skills.

I can be reached at:dale.vanlopik"at"att"dot"net

Thanks

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: pgp] #255922
12/29/12 06:25 PM
12/29/12 06:25 PM
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Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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Originally Posted by pgp
I often sail the cat on one hull. I was really thinking of the amas as training wheels, like on a bicycle.


How about we trade boats are you build a tri from an i20?

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255923
12/29/12 06:39 PM
12/29/12 06:39 PM
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pgp Offline
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Pass.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255924
12/29/12 09:26 PM
12/29/12 09:26 PM
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Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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I would go with a 20' main hull, but that's just me. [/hijack]

Rolf, you sir are wild man. A 4 or 5 axis cnc its on three short list if I ever win the lottery.


I'm boatless.
Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255926
12/30/12 02:08 AM
12/30/12 02:08 AM
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West coast of Norway
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Hi Dale,

what would you like to know?

My CNC is based on a chineese mini-mill. I sourced stepper motors and the 4 axis controller (tb6560) through e-bay. Power supply for controller and steppers I picked up used at work and same for an old computer to run the controller.
The only thing I had to manufacture from scratch was the stepper motor mounts. For that a lathe simplifies the build a lot.

If you are looking for details, you can find all kind of the sort on cnczone.com.


Karl, if you want it, build it smile I dont spend time in front of the tv which gives me time for projekts. How large a machine do you need for your projects, and why 4-5 axis?
Sometime in my future there might be a large size router for wood projects but with replaceable heads for sailplotting and sailcutting. Lasers are also cool..

There is so much i want to build and do and so little time..

Last edited by Rolf_Nilsen; 12/30/12 08:14 AM.
Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255930
12/30/12 03:30 PM
12/30/12 03:30 PM
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WEST. MICH. USA
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Thanks Rolf. I will look into it.

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: DVL] #255933
12/31/12 10:05 AM
12/31/12 10:05 AM
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Naples, FL
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Rolf - did you say you got the plans for your F16 build with the high aspect daggarboards?

I always thought the Blade F16 would do well with high-aspect daggars, but don't know how difficult it would be to either:

-buy plans with the upgraded daggarboard design
-modify an existing Blade

How much did your plans cost?


Jay

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255936
12/31/12 11:50 AM
12/31/12 11:50 AM
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Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
Karl, if you want it, build it smile I dont spend time in front of the tv which gives me time for projekts. How large a machine do you need for your projects, and why 4-5 axis?


I don't watch a lot of tv either, especially in the warm months. For work, I'll never get a cnc. Too slow, too many secondary/support equipment needed, and they really aren't the answer for what I do for work. If I were making a thousand, or even a hundred of one part it would make sense, but its just not what I do.

Now, for making things out of aluminum for boat/motorcycle/whatever, I'd want to be able to draw it up, throw a blank in the machine and let it buck.

a 4 or 5 axis can make all of the compound crazy curves that are extremely difficult to do any other way. I really want to make some billet rudder stocks as an example. Same with making molds, want a new daggerboard shape? Throw a blank of aluminum in the mill and watch the chips fly.

Just a toy to me, and one that I won't be buying unless I were to win the lotto, (which I rarely play). Right now it's cheaper to just hire out the job to those with the tooling, and let me do my job to pay for it.


I'm boatless.
Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: waterbug_wpb] #255942
12/31/12 03:54 PM
12/31/12 03:54 PM
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Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Rolf - did you say you got the plans for your F16 build with the high aspect daggarboards?
<snip>

How much did your plans cost?


I dont think I said anything about the AR on daggers. But I intend to go relatively high AR.
The plans I have are the plywood plans in addition to some updated cross sections for hulls. I dont think plans are available anymore and certainly not the updated cross sections which was made as a personal favour 5 years ago.

If more people built boats, more plans and options for foils would be available. I dont know what people are busy doing, but homebuilding is declining. I have tried starting discussions on foils for F16s and developments there, and the interest is relatively low, with a few very good exceptions.

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Karl_Brogger] #255943
12/31/12 03:57 PM
12/31/12 03:57 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

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Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger

<snip>

Now, for making things out of aluminum for boat/motorcycle/whatever, I'd want to be able to draw it up, throw a blank in the machine and let it buck.



Ah, I am now learning just that part. Draw it and then have the machine do it.. Turnes out there is a learning curve there smile

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger

a 4 or 5 axis can make all of the compound crazy curves that are extremely difficult to do any other way. I really want to make some billet rudder stocks as an example. Same with making molds, want a new daggerboard shape? Throw a blank of aluminum in the mill and watch the chips fly.



I am sure you know this, but for those who dont. Making a mould (male or female) for daggerboards require only 3 axis.



Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger

Just a toy to me, and one that I won't be buying unless I were to win the lotto, (which I rarely play). Right now it's cheaper to just hire out the job to those with the tooling, and let me do my job to pay for it.


Ahh, but learning new stuff is so much fun and interesting.

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255944
12/31/12 04:53 PM
12/31/12 04:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Rolf, if you want to see some very awesome machining/fab stuff at work give this a read. CLICKY A buddy sent it to me about three years ago, and I end up reading through it about once a year.



Its about a AC Cobra replica that Larry Elison had built. Some of the coolest sh!t I have ever seen.



Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen

I am sure you know this, but for those who dont. Making a mould (male or female) for daggerboards require only 3 axis.


Yes, but.....

Last edited by Karl_Brogger; 12/31/12 04:55 PM.

I'm boatless.
Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255946
12/31/12 06:27 PM
12/31/12 06:27 PM
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pgp Offline
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....but the air filter has a Moroso cap.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: pgp] #255948
01/01/13 07:56 AM
01/01/13 07:56 AM
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waynemarlow Offline
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Trouble is the cnc cutter I want is a little over 16ft long smile

Often thought that the latest 3D printers which are dropping in price dramatically may be far better off at making prototype boards and the likes as they could then be used for making the moulds with a perfect finish already inplace unlike the cnc routers which need hours and hours of final fairing and polishing before a board could be made.

Hey by the way happy new year all and may the sailing gods be kind to us all this year.

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255949
01/01/13 12:39 PM
01/01/13 12:39 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

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Hi Wayne,

I dont know how good the resolution on 3D printers is yet. Probably pretty good, but as good as the 1/100mm you can achieve on a CNC mill?
Will the media used in 3D printing warp depending on temperature differences when building or storing largish items like a foil?

16foot CNC router is doable. But the Z axis would be hard to make to allow the milling of whole hulls I think smile Perhaps if two half hull plugs were made.. hmmm..

Matt used to have some pics on the Vectorworks website from the milling of the Blade plugs. Large machine and a 2 step process with foam. I dont know if they faired or used putty on the plug but I believe the result is good enough from milling to just polish the part and then start moulding.


Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255971
01/02/13 10:05 AM
01/02/13 10:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen

If more people built boats, more plans and options for foils would be available. I dont know what people are busy doing, but homebuilding is declining. I have tried starting discussions on foils for F16s and developments there, and the interest is relatively low, with a few very good exceptions.


I think there's a perception that home-build is no cheaper and much more time consuming than buying off the shelf. And that the boats would be heavy and not competitive

Same reason few people make beer at home, perhaps?

But you indicated in your build project perhaps the most important reason - you have more time than money. Thanks to your detailed site, it does make the concept of a home build a bit more feasible to those who have basic skills with wood and epoxy.

Tortured ply looks a bit less cumbersome than mold-building/sandwich core construction, but I've only built an Opti (which probably weighed 2x what it should have, and lasted about 1 season before it's Viking funeral). But I'd have to find plans...

I think with high aspect boards, that Blade F16 design would be outstanding as a home-build project. But it would likely cost the same as a new Falcon/Viper once you add the rest of the platform (sails, mast, rigging, beams, foils, etc)unless you were good at finding people who are parting-out their older F16 models.


Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 01/02/13 10:05 AM.

Jay

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255974
01/02/13 05:05 PM
01/02/13 05:05 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

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Amongst my friends homebrewing of beer is on the rise! To bad that I can not stand the stuff anymore smile

Time is a limitation as well as money. Borrowing money from the bank to purchase a boat was never an option for me.

Cost will be spread over a longer time, and for me the finished cost will be relatively minor compared to purchasing and importing a used boat (we have 25% VAT on everything here). I have sources for cheap materials. Masts and beams scrounged. Cleats etc. collected over many years. Will purchase sail panels pre-cut and assemble at home. In total the cost will be minor compared to purchasing.


And I will have a unique experience to take with me in life, and lots of fun during the build. As tonight when I did the Z axis and ran the first program. Some cleanup now and the CNC mill is ready. Happy days!

I have even got a new job contract signed which will reduce my commuting time and free up at least 10 hours a week of overtime! Even more happy days!

Last edited by Rolf_Nilsen; 01/02/13 05:07 PM.
Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #255995
01/03/13 04:09 PM
01/03/13 04:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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I'd probably only build the hulls. the rest of the stuff sounds too complicated for my pea-brain.

I guess I could scrounge up the various parts over time...

You are correct, the build would definitely be an experience and worth the effort ..


Jay

Re: My F16 Blade build [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #257023
02/05/13 03:36 PM
02/05/13 03:36 PM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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Solomon's Island, MD
Rolf,

Have you managed to find time to worry about the foils? I'm considering building a set for my F18, as a potential money savor and to say I've done it. One big question is what airfoil is being used on the current sections, do your plans specify that?

Thanks,
Sam


Scorpion F18
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