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Re: "White Shark Rule" [Re: catandahalf] #256353
01/16/13 09:44 PM
01/16/13 09:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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Hillsborough, NC USA
The 2013 RRS changes rule 41(a) to allow help for a crew member who is in danger. It also adds the provision a boat may not gain a significant advantage for a crew member receiving help. If she does, she may be protested, and protest committee may impose a penalty other than disqualification.

This rule does not permit a capsized boat to receive righting assistance - only help for crew in danger.

I hope that helps,
Eric

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: "White Shark Rule" [Re: Isotope235] #256355
01/16/13 09:51 PM
01/16/13 09:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 217
Palm Harbor, FL
daniel_t Offline
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Posts: 217
Palm Harbor, FL
Originally Posted by Isotope42
Originally Posted by brucat
... a capsized boat may be given a finish position if it drifts across the line because that is a normal position for a dinghy...

A few years back, there was a situation where a laser capsized immediately in front of the finish line, and current carried it across before the sailor righted it. There was some argument as to whether or not capsized was "in normal position", but that discussion missed the point. Take a careful read of the definition of finish:

Quote
A boat finishes when any part of her hull, or crew or equipment in normal position crosses the finishing line...

Note the position of the first comma. "crew" or "equipment" must be in normal position, but the "hull" can be in any position. Therefore the boat in question finished when her hull crossed the finishing line, regardless of being upright or capsized.

I hope that was interesting,


I'm not so sure that noting the position of a comma in a grammatically incorrect sentence is all that enlightening.


Daniel T.
Taipan F16 - USA 213
Re: "White Shark Rule" [Re: daniel_t] #256357
01/16/13 10:11 PM
01/16/13 10:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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Hillsborough, NC USA
Originally Posted by daniel_t
I'm not so sure that noting the position of a comma in a grammatically incorrect sentence is all that enlightening.

Actually, it's two commas (I misquoted the first time, sorry).

Quote
A boat finishes when any part of her hull, or crew or equipment in normal position, crosses the finishing line...

The position of the commas separates the clause "or crew or equipment in normal position", meaning that "in normal position" does not apply to the "any part of her hull" clause. So, the hull may be in any position and still satisfy the definition of finish.

Regards,
Eric

Re: "White Shark Rule" [Re: Isotope235] #256362
01/17/13 01:39 AM
01/17/13 01:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline
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Issaquah, WA, USA
Originally Posted by Isotope42
The 2013 RRS changes rule 41(a) to allow help for a crew member who is in danger. It also adds the provision a boat may not gain a significant advantage for a crew member receiving help. If she does, she may be protested, and protest committee may impose a penalty other than disqualification.

This rule does not permit a capsized boat to receive righting assistance - only help for crew in danger.

I hope that helps,
Eric



Good rule. Common case, crew overboard, separated from boat, gets assistance to get back to boat.

Re: "White Shark Rule" [Re: H17cat] #256366
01/17/13 09:31 AM
01/17/13 09:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
I agree - common sense- return the separated crew and let them effect the righting and sailing with no penalty (they're probably going to be last anyway). Help with righting would DSQ

But were we originally talking about the youth sailing events? Should a youth team be allowed righting (or other) assistance with no penalty?

And I'm not talking about "youth" like Reiss or Casey. Those F*ers don't need no stinkin' assistance smile They can usually sail faster sideways than some of us can sail "regular"


Jay

Re: "White Shark Rule" [Re: catandahalf] #256371
01/17/13 03:55 PM
01/17/13 03:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Don't you hate it when someone (usually a Yout) flips, rights it, and still beats you by a mile?

Mike

Re: "White Shark Rule" [Re: brucat] #256372
01/17/13 04:17 PM
01/17/13 04:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Yes, I do hate that, but it's not like they're going to take my Rum at the bar, so it kinda works out in the long run...


Jay

Re: "White Shark Rule" [Re: waterbug_wpb] #256373
01/17/13 07:37 PM
01/17/13 07:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
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ksurfer2 Offline
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Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
.....or when your idiot skipper flips, and then after righting the boat, sails the wrong way up the river. Don't ask me how I know.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: "White Shark Rule" [Re: ksurfer2] #256381
01/18/13 09:22 AM
01/18/13 09:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Oh yeah, I forgot to add that to my "things that suck" list.

Thank goodness we didn't need the GPS...

And, after close inspection of the daggarboard with my face, there appeared no scuffs

Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 01/18/13 09:22 AM.

Jay

Re: "White Shark Rule" [Re: Mark Schneider] #256444
01/21/13 12:34 PM
01/21/13 12:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
That's a great question Bert!

My opinion would be that the righting assistance = dsq is not a penalty... it's a disqualification for a lack of seamanship. Regattas are won by the best most consistent sailor (they might never win a race!). This is the nature of the game and changing the outside assitance rule would be a fundamental change in the nature of the game.

The practical problem would be that coach and spectator boats would now be part of the racing game.... Now they are on call by the PRO for safety reasons.... With your white shark rule.... a teams personal guardian angel would shadow you up the course and then race to help you get back in the game when you screw up.

I distinguish a penalty from a dsq... A penalty is a circle on the water or a time hit on a distance race. A dsq is for events that would fundamentally change the game. (Like outside assitance)

YMMV


I agree with Mark on this. Flipping and subsequent righting are part of your racing (or lack there of)skills. If a "white shark" were truly involved the DSQ is the least of your worries.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
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