I am toying with the idea of putting some kind of head sail on my Supercat 15. I know Rick has a hooter on his wave, but do you think that would be best or possibly a spinnaker? Any help would be welcome. Also where do you start when you have no other boat to get the measurements from? (pole length, sail size, whether to snuff or not)
I would like to make my own pole and rigging, but need your input for the type of sail to use!
Thanks.
Heinz Smith
Supercat 15 and Supercat 17

Hello Pcatsailor,
I know this may sound strange to you because no other beach cat factory does this for their boats, but if you want to put a spinnaker on any SC product, CONTACT THE FACTORY. Aquarius-Sail has kits and a source for the sail to put a spinnaker on any of the SC products. The SC product line of boats was built with enough "STRUCTURAL MARGIN" so that you can add a spinnaker and you are not going to break anything, the mast is not going to invert and all kinds of other malfunctions occurr. The factory has experimented with spinnakers and gennakers and found that spinnakers make the boat go faster over the normal range of sailing conditions and points of sail than a gennaker does. The factory has found that most beach cat rigs are not stiff enough to hold the luff of a gennaker tight enough and straight enough to make a gennaker work well. Also gennakers greatly increase the loads in the rigging system, mast compression etc. Masts have been broken with gennakers but never with a spinnaker.
Bill

Thanks Bill, I'll get in touch with Tom and see what he says. But have you seen a spinn on a 15 or would it not have enough waterline to benifit from it considering the cost. The boat is quite fast but I am getting overtaken on the downwind runs. Maybe it's my sailing, but it seems that the sail is very flat with not much curve to it, and with light wind it seems a little slower.
Thanks again for the info.
Heinz Smith
Fleet 42
Supercat 15 and 17

The basic headsail configuration can be devided into three main categories :

Spinnakers
Gennakers (often called spinnakers by catsailors)
Reachers (hooters, screachers, code 1's)

I think Bills use of the words "Spinnaker" and "Gennaker" refer respectively to Gennakers and Reachers. Don't be confused by this.

A spinnaker is often a symmetrically cut headsail that derives its power from beyond a big drag in an airflow coming from behind.

A gennaker is an asymmetrically cut headsail with a loose luff ; . It acts like a wing and produce drive by creating lift from a airflow that comes from abeam or even forward of the boat.

A reacher is also an asymmetrically cut head but differs from the gennaker by having a straight luff (considerable tension). It closely resembles a very big jib with a very full cut. It is also far more triagular in shape than a gennaker.

I hope this helps

To answer your direct questions :

Rules of thumb for a gennaker (Bills Spinnaker)

-1- don't place the spi head gate past the hound by more than 60 % of the mast length above the hounds. Example hounds at 6 mtr. mast total = 8.5 mtr ; mast length above hounds = 8.5 -6 = 2.4 mtr. 60 % of this = 2.5 * 0.6 = 1.5 mtr. So spi gate will at 6 + 1.5 = 7.5 from the mast base.

I know the Supercat masts are relatively strong and stiff on the SC15 so you could get away with a mast gate higher than this. But bear in mind that the loads increase by the 3rd power (stronger than quadratic) when you move the spi gate up.

-2- pole length = about 0,80 mtr + sq root (Width boats)^2 + (length boat/2)^2 = for you about 3.35 mtr = 11 foot.

You bows go deep so you should fear lee helm to much so I would do 11 foot. On boat with leehelm problems I would choose 10 ft over 11 foot.

-3- Spi size; this is more determine by the triangle that goes from "tip of pole to ratchet block on side stay to spi gate on mast" THEN on the desire to have a particular size. The lengths of the legs of this triangle combined with the modern developped optimal shape determine the size of spi you can have. Don't delude yourself that more spi area is better. I the class I'm involved in we find that a good shape and balance between luff length and area is more important than overall size. A recent example is in the Mosquito class (A sligtly smaller cat than the F16's) were they are seeing signs that a 15 sq. mtr spi (161 sq. ft) is faster than a 17 sq.mtr. spi (183 sq .ft) which share the same luff length.

In your case I expect that somewhere around 15 sq. mtr. is optimal, given the dimensions of your hull and mast. Both your hulls and mast are 15/16 = 93,8 % is about 26/28 = 92.8 %. So your spi foot will be about 93 % of those of the 16's and your height will be about 93 % as well, with this you expected area will become 17,5 sq.mtr. * 93 % * 93 % = about 15.1 sq. mtr. = 163 sq. ft. THIS IS JUST A NUMBER TO GIVE YOU A FEEL OF WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT NOT AN ADVICED AREA, because you must let a good sailmaker decide what he can put in there in a optimal way.

-4- Homebuilding ? Yes, do that most definately; saves you heaps of money. Only think you can't make yourself is the spi sail itself. That takes to much experience.

Go to http:\\www.geocities.com\kustzeilen\ to download a document on how to make your own spi setup.

Have fun

Wouter

Actually, and to further complicate matters, on this side of the pond we do refer to large, tight luff, oversized head sails as Gennakers (sometimes as Gennies). Usually this is within reference to monohulls. This is pretty much the same as the Hooter.

Thanks Wouter. I still have a question about whether it will be worth it. My main and jib are new but are of original design, crosscut and not tri-radial or square top. The question is would I be better off trying a new squaretop main before I go to the extra expense of the spinnaker set up. Also since I sail it alone quite often, would a non-snuffer design be to hard to handle alone?
Thanks again.
Heinz

That I can think of, all the single handed spin boats I've seen have snuffers. It can be done but I can't imagine safely handling a bag launched spinnaker single handed in all but the lightest breeze. It takes us three hands to effectively douse my bagged spinnaker in a blow (two pulling in the sail and one of mine easing the halyard / tack line while my other one steers).

A square head is not really going to give you any moment by moment noticable performance improvement. It will probably shave a few seconds off your lap times but that's about it. Personally I wouldn't replace a relatively new main sail just for the added square head performance. Your gain is not worth the price.

If it were me and I wanted to predominantly single hand, I would probably add the spin and find a way to build or purchase a snuffer.

Heinz,

In reply to: "...would a non-snuffer design be to hard to handle alone?"

I have an 18 foot cat and I single hand with an non-snuffer spinnaker. It can be done with the proper setup, but I would not recommend it for racing or for anything beyond a light breeze. It does require more then 2 hands, and would not be good to do if other boats are near by. There is to large a risk that something would get tangled leaving you out of control heading toward other boats. A snuffer would be the way to go.

Heinz,

I would go for a spi before going for a new mainsail (sqauretop) The impact of a spi is alot bigger and adds alot more fun to the boat.

With respect to manually do the spi without a snuffer. I've done it and do it up till reasonable winds. After that it becomes to hard to handle the spi forces while sailing anyway. In 20 knots I have may hands full on the mainsail alone anyway.

I completely agree with patrick. When there are alot of boats nearby (like near course marks) then a snuffer will give you extra security although I had my failures with a snuffer too. I'm stll not to impressed by snuffer systems and since I learned it to do manually before the snuffers I'm quite handy at it. The manual approach does wear the spin down alot less I'm told. So for recreational purposes I would suggest you do it manually while starting in light airs and move up the wind scale. Best is to practice alot of sets and drops for a weekend or so while a second person is steering the boats. After a while you get the hang of it and feel more comfortable doing it singlehandedly.

But a snuffer system is always more handy that is for sure. Quite a few people have homemade these to.

Wouter

Hi TBird,
There is no waterline length problem. If you use a spin pole that is 40 to 45% of the mast height, this will lay the spinnaker back so that the resultant force from the spinnaker will lift the bows and reduce the pitchpole tendency. Again, if you want a spinnaker launching system that works well right out of the box, GO TO THE FACTORY. The Aquarius-Sail factory supports the SC boat owners with normal upgrades and modifications to the SC product line of boats, all sizes. No other factory does this.
Yes, I have seen a spinnaker on a SC15.
You never sail a beach cat on a "downwind run". That is the slow way to go downwind; this is monohull sailing. To get to a point downwind on a sloop rigged beach cat, you sail downwind to a relative wind angle that is approximately abeam. Trim the mainsail and jibsail out for reaching downwind but in just enough to get the tell-tales to fly on both sides of both sails at the same time while sailing as deep as possible. Once the sails are set and tell-tales flying properly, cleat the sails, don't change them, and keep the tell-tales flying by steering the boat only. It is something like sailing to windward, steer to the tell-tales, except you are sailing to a maximum downwind angle instead of a minimum upwind angle.
Bill

Wouter,
Evidently you sailors in Holland speak another headsail language.
Here in the US there are two types of spinnakers, Symmetrical and Nonsymmetrical. Symmetrical spinnakers are quickly becoming a thing of the past. Even the Americas Cup monohulls use nonsymmetrical spinnakers now. They also have square top mainsails. I wonder where they got that idea? Nonsymmetrical spinnakers work with the airflow moving across the sail, luff to leech, like a working sail.
Gennakers,screachers,hooters,reachers,code 1's, etc are all sails with a tight, straight luff, luff wire or rope, and are often rigged roller furling.
Wouter's comments:
1- Don't put the spinnaker hounds above 33% of the distance between the main hounds and the top of the mast without back stays. Doing so can cause mast inversion and breakage like the I20 class.
2- Pole ength: The spin pole should be 40 to 45% of the mast height. With this 'laid back' spinnaker, the bows are lifted by the spinnaker and no pitchpole occurrs due to the spinnaker.
3-The SuperCat family of beach boats are designed with a unique laterial force analysis system called Shared Lift. The SC boardless beach designs were conceived from a design system that placed one half the daggerboard area on the bow and one half the daggerboard area on the stern with a resultant center of laterial resistance which balanced the center of effort from the sail plan. Then the daggerboard at the bow was replaced with a deep Vee hull shape in the forward half of the hull. This places the hull CLR well forward of the main beam and NO LEE HELM will develope with a spinnaker on a boardless SC15 or 17 or 19. This is not the case with other boardless beach cats as Wouter pointed out.
The SC factory will help you with all the information and parts you need to set up a well functionin spinnaker system.
4- Homebuilt? I don't think so. I have talked to many sailors who made their own spinnaker pole etc. They finally got it right on the third or fourth try. Meanwhile they had spent alot of money on poles and rigging and messed up two or three good regattas. Add all that up and you can buy at least two factory kits.
Bill

Heinz:
After crewing a tramp launched spinaker in the last race, I highly recommend the snuffer system for you. Remember that when you bag onto the tramp, you can only launch the spin from one side, even if it's not the tack you want. Then you must jibe to your preferred tack. The work involved would be almost impossible on your boat single-handed.
I read on this forum recently that someone set up a snuffer that had lead the spin through a tube and then it went into a bag under the tramp, out of the wind. You may also want to check out Anthony Aquila's snuffer hoop on his website. Hope to see you on the 8th.

The weather is here, wish you were beautiful...

Dennis - can you provide a link to Anthony's web site?

Here you go:
Aquila Sailing

I have not cleared this with anyone. I just got the link from a friend. I sailed against Anthony 2 weeks ago. He sailed his P19 with spinnaker. Very similar to ours except we launched from the tramp. He left us behind... Of course, he has lots more experience, and he might be a (slightly) better sailor.

Take look at this. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...ngId=-1&productId=123495&ref=YPF

My cousin has one of those on his 42’ sailing boat. You probably would be able to find one for your cat.


As far size – they have some tables that you can get the dimensions from.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...angId=-1&productId=79803&ref=YPF

Good luck

Kris

Where are all the skeletons coming from? Max or Maya or something else?
Dave

I've never seen a gennaker snuffer like the one pictured above on a beachcat. On larger boats yes, but they are far to heavy and you'd take a huge hit on windage with one of those. All that cloth above the hounds would make the mast even heavier.