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Re: How many members does F18 have worldwide? [Re: franck] #257212
02/08/13 09:31 AM
02/08/13 09:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 32
Just Sail Offline
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Just Sail  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by franck
Andrew,
I know it is hard for you to make responses with logic. No problem indeed wink
The most important is not to change your mind, but that readers can have 2 different advices.
Have a good day.


Franck

So everyone else is wrong and you are right!

This is my last post to you because it feels good to stop banging my head against the wall. There is no point in communicating with you. You don't listen to reason and are totally out of touch with reality.


Last edited by Just Sail; 02/08/13 10:38 AM.
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Re: How many members does F18 have worldwide? [Re: Tony_F18] #257213
02/08/13 11:24 AM
02/08/13 11:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
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franck Offline
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franck  Offline
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2 or 3 people are not everybody. You can think in a different way, no problem. Forum interest for reader is they know there is not only one speech. Be careful not to stay alone with your faster last tech F18. :-)

Re: How many members does F18 have worldwide? [Re: Tony_F18] #257218
02/08/13 12:13 PM
02/08/13 12:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Franck, it's everybody.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: How many members does F18 have worldwide? [Re: Tony_F18] #257226
02/09/13 03:22 AM
02/09/13 03:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
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franck Offline
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Posts: 108
John, I do not think so. You can think another way and it's ok (better ?) if you have an argumentation. If not, you can focus on a personn, this is another level. Your choice smile

I've been during 6 years french association money man. During this time wih the french board the association go from 95 members to 280 members as to be the first association in the world.

We make mistake but also good thing, I think, for the class.
I quite because other duties and now elected as administrator of the french MNA (Olivier and Pierre Charles created the F18 under the umbrella of french MNA).
So I confess I'm always concerned by F18 and also with 3 sons and myself on the F18 french ranking list.


More important than this, what say Jay Glaser on the item of sail should be listened carefully.

Last edited by franck; 02/09/13 11:23 AM.
Re: How many members does F18 have worldwide? [Re: Tony_F18] #257229
02/09/13 11:40 AM
02/09/13 11:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Everyone in the virtual room knows what you think, Franck. And people would listen to sailors like Jay if you would pipe down. Your attitude and résumé-recitation suck all the oxygen out of the conversation - you make it pure drudgery to slog through these threads. Though you're unlikely to take anyone's counsel aside from your own, I'd recommend you set aside the keyboard for a while.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: How many members does F18 have worldwide? [Re: Tony_F18] #257230
02/09/13 12:40 PM
02/09/13 12:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
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franck Offline
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Posts: 108
The exact figures is -37% new boat plaques provided to builders in 2012 worldwide , so sorry then for the oxygen John.

Re: How many members does F18 have worldwide? [Re: Tony_F18] #257233
02/09/13 07:56 PM
02/09/13 07:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
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Tony_F18 Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Franck, you are implying that the reason less new boats have been sold is due to some brand coming up with longer
daggerboards, or someone using paint instead of gelcoat?!
Just in the news today I heard France going back into a recession, for most people sailing is not high on the top of their list of priorities right now.

According to the ISAF annual report the price of new boats are still the same as they where in 2011-2012 anyway (€21K).
IMHO what is hurting the class more is the nontransparent/indecisive decision making process regarding class rules,
first with the paint and now this business with sails.
The F18 committees have to do a better job at (publicly) substantiating their decisions (reports, research, etc).

Anyway, according to your logic the low-tech Nacra 6.0, Hobie Tiger, and Inter 18 would still be biggest classes?

Re: How many members does F18 have worldwide? [Re: Tony_F18] #257234
02/10/13 03:08 AM
02/10/13 03:08 AM
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Posts: 108
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franck Offline
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Posts: 108
Tony, the drop is worldwide.
Hard to say the part due to economic situation and faster F18 tendancy.
One thing is sure this performance pushing situation does not help to buy new boat.
When you said the responsability is on F18 committees, it's like to say there is a robbering and it is only police fault.

F18 replace Nacra 6.0 and Inter 18, used Tiger because of a good concept.
In 2012 the Hobie 16 was the largest numerous fleet in France.
So may be that is an answer to your question.

Re: How many members does F18 have worldwide? [Re: Tony_F18] #257235
02/10/13 05:18 AM
02/10/13 05:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
J
Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Jeff.Dusek  Offline
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J

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
I think the sale of new boats is only a small portion of evaluating overall fleet strength. As has been mentioned, many factors can impact new boat sales, not the least of which is global economic uncertainty.

What is important is to see the large fleet growth in new countries like Argentina and Chile, fleet growth in the United States, a strong US worlds, the first American Continental Championship being planned, a bid to host worlds from Oman, etc.

The F18 class has fortunately grown into a truly worldwide class, it can no longer be viewed and governed like it just exists in France. I have huge amounts of respect for those who worked incredibly hard to form and develop what I am enjoying today, but now class decisions must be made in an international manner.


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: How many members does F18 have worldwide? [Re: Tony_F18] #257236
02/10/13 12:10 PM
02/10/13 12:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
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franck Offline
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Posts: 108
Class report official figures for 2012:

(1) FRA: 280 members (old and new boat)
(2) NED: 200
(3) GER: 162
(4) ITA: 134
Europe: 776

(5) USA: 134
(6) AUS: 082
(7) ARG: 072
Americas: 288

If we consider the population of Americas, it is obvious life cycle "product" F18 isn't at the same stage in Europe and Americas.
That explain the different feeling about the evolution.

To be optimistic I think experience of the updated Tiger is a good story.
To follow that said John, I let you breath ;-)
Exchange point of view, is a part of good making for class decisions.




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