Announcements
New Discussions
Suggestions light wind big chop?
by fa1321. 05/08/21 07:26 AM
Downhaul under spinnaker
by CapriSun. 04/22/21 09:01 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Who's fastest? #258224
03/08/13 10:22 AM
03/08/13 10:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
I just found this vid. on You Tube, it's a Kite vs. Moth vs. 49'r on an upwind-downwind race course (our typical course).

There is some great footage from the Kite Cam! I won't spoil the ending for you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l29gGKzmlkU


Too bad they didn't include a fast spinnaker cat. Anyone know how a spin cat compares to a Moth, upwind/downwind?


Blade F16
#777
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258225
03/08/13 10:42 AM
03/08/13 10:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
J
Jeff.Dusek Offline
addict
Jeff.Dusek  Offline
addict
J

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
We (F18s) were on the same course as the 49ers at Newport last year. We were faster both up and down in the moderate conditions (12-15). In very light air the 49er might do better because of quicker maneuvers and the ability to roll tack/gybe.

The comparison with a moth is probably very wind speed and seastate dependent.

Light air: Performance cat will win until the moth can foil consistently. Then moth is gone.

Moderate breeze: If the moth is foiling consistently they are gone

Big breeze: Moths start having trouble when the seastate causes their foils to ventilate or the wand to leave the water. In gnarly stuff a think the cat would have an advantage due to being able to push harder.

If you have a chance, definitely try sailing a moth- it is an awesome experience!


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258228
03/08/13 12:40 PM
03/08/13 12:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Thanks Jeff, I would love to try a Moth sometime, as long as the water is warm, because that's probably where I'll spend most of my time!

When I watched that video (above) I was really surprized the kite board could get upwind as well, or better, than the Moth, and that the both waxed the 49'er upwind. The wind looked about 10kts or less, no whitecaps, I'm guessing if it were stronger, the kite would have done even better.

The kite does seem to run a lower angle, but makes up for it in speed, going a much further distance than the moth, but then passing him when he tacks and comes back. But going downind, not even close. The only race the Moth won, was when the kite crashed.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258230
03/08/13 02:39 PM
03/08/13 02:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
J
Jeff.Dusek Offline
addict
Jeff.Dusek  Offline
addict
J

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
I sailed the moth in singapore... Nice and warm!

The scary part with the kites is they have gotten even faster since that video! Super efficient in anything over about 8 knots.


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258231
03/08/13 02:48 PM
03/08/13 02:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
I always knew they were fast, but until that video, I'd never seen one race upwind. I'm surprised they do so well on what is supposed to be "our course" ie. windward/leeward. That's why I was wishing they had put a good, fast catamaran in the mix too.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258232
03/08/13 02:57 PM
03/08/13 02:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Timbo
I always knew they were fast, but until that video, I'd never seen one race upwind. I'm surprised they do so well on what is supposed to be "our course" ie. windward/leeward. That's why I was wishing they had put a good, fast catamaran in the mix too.


Yeah, I'm pretty surprised at how well the kite goes upwind too...that's pretty cool. I'm not sure I want to see the catamaran against the kite, honestly.


Jake Kohl
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258233
03/08/13 03:21 PM
03/08/13 03:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Well here's the thing, I know a cat will outpoint the board, and the cat might go upwind as well as a Moth, pointing higer, not going lower faster. With the spinnaker, the cat should go downwind a whole lot faster than the Moth, so, even though the kite might win, I think a good fast spinnaker cat would give a kite a much closer race, upwind and down.

There is one big advantage for the kite, besides the obvious weight vs. sail area, the kite can up up much higher into the air column, to get into more wind, vs. the Moth and 49'r sailplan, which has to stay lower.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258236
03/08/13 05:06 PM
03/08/13 05:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
The kiteboard in the video is quite an old design, the latest ones are much wider with much bigger fins (3x40cm).
When the wind is up they are very tricky to sail downwind though, basically the fins want to push the board out of the water.
Another advantage of the kite is that you can generate extra power by steering and looping it.
Actually hope to try one this summer, should be good fun (and also lots of swimming!).

[Linked Image]

Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258242
03/09/13 12:26 AM
03/09/13 12:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
old hand
samc99us  Offline
old hand
S

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
Kite is fun but a lot of upper body and torso work, more than the other boats. Also more dangerous if it gets out of control!


Scorpion F18
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258248
03/09/13 10:46 AM
03/09/13 10:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 297
R
rexdenton Offline
enthusiast
rexdenton  Offline
enthusiast
R

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 297
Looked like Damo hit the mark and did not circle...dunno. Jeff had it right with 49r. F18's were much faster at Newport. In fact, my boat had issues that day with a loosening jib, and we were s l o w...Even with that, 49's were often in the way on the downwinds, trying to control their boats. We steered well clear of a few of them as we passed, as they were prone to wild dumps on variable angles as they attempted to control their rigs. The 49r fleet also seemed to spend a large amount of time swimming that day.


Nacra F18 #856
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: rexdenton] #258249
03/09/13 11:21 AM
03/09/13 11:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I
Isotope235 Offline
old hand
Isotope235  Offline
old hand
I

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
Originally Posted by rexdenton
Looked like Damo hit the mark and did not circle...dunno.

He's probably used to racing under Appendix F "Kiteboard Racing Rules". Rule F3 "Changes to the Rules of Part 3", says (in part) "Rule 31 is deleted".

Re: Who's fastest? [Re: rexdenton] #258250
03/09/13 12:10 PM
03/09/13 12:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 490
catandahalf Offline
addict
catandahalf  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 490
Try out this day on a Bay http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWINygISxDE&mode=related&search=

Could speed trials be a new wave???

Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258251
03/09/13 12:38 PM
03/09/13 12:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Nice!
Did you see the Hobie 18 with a yellow kite, being pulled left to right at about 1:40 into the video?

The kites and windsurfers looked fast, until the big Tri's ate them up.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258253
03/09/13 06:19 PM
03/09/13 06:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
There is also a different kiteracing category which is kitefoiling, its like a moth and a kiteraceboard had a lovechild wink
http://vimeo.com/42574035

Last edited by Tony_F18; 03/09/13 06:19 PM.
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258255
03/10/13 08:52 AM
03/10/13 08:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
That is pretty cool, that and the foiling stand up paddle board in the other video there!


Blade F16
#777
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258256
03/10/13 10:23 AM
03/10/13 10:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Ever try one of those air chairs behind a powerboat? 1: it's f-ing hard. 2: when you screw up water gets driven through your nose all the way to the back of your skull.
It's seriously one of those toys that's waaaaay easier after a few beers.


I'm boatless.
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258257
03/10/13 10:36 AM
03/10/13 10:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
There is a kid here on my lake that has one, I've watched him doing back flips on it, looks like something that would kill me in less than 3 minutes!

I'd find a way to hit myself over the head with it, or wrap the tow rope around my neck!

Today there's a float plane fly-in going on out back, I'm going to take the Prindle out and fk with them while they try to land.

This was filmed on my lake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHBFcaI-hp4

The guy flying in that clip is Phil Lockwood, who designed the twin engine Air Cam. Phil lives about a mile up the street from me, and has let me fly his airplane several times, it's great fun, you guys all need one of these! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv3FkwkAVYs


Blade F16
#777
Re: Who's fastest? [Re: Timbo] #258258
03/10/13 09:13 PM
03/10/13 09:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Well 15 float planes showed up, I got in some great reaches and runs. It was so nice out, I spent 4 hours out there. It was blowing 13 to 18 is what the airport automated observation said. I forgot to put on sunblock so I got smoked! My face looks like a tomato, but it was worth it.


Blade F16
#777

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 39 guests, and 256 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
BowWave, Joachim, GilliganF80, heretic, Carlos_Ledo
8104 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
fa1321 1
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,387
Posts267,025
Members8,104
Most Online1,650
Sep 10th, 2019
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1