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Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma #258674
04/02/13 11:18 AM
04/02/13 11:18 AM
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catandahalf Offline OP
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Tie up on http://www.trofeoprincesasofia.org/en for photos, results, and live Olympic sailing.

If your timing is convenient then watch Sarah and JC this week as they continue their journey.

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Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258682
04/02/13 02:05 PM
04/02/13 02:05 PM
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Mark Schneider Offline
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So this looks like the first big N17 event for the Olympic Mixed Class. Why not jump the gun and draw sweeping conclusions after three races sailed... (its the internet after all)

No clear trend in how the F/M sorts on the boat ... a quick eyeball seems to be about 50 perecnt of the teams going one way.. 50 % the other.

Call that an initial win for the N17 Class design and the Olympic Committe selection process (cough) ...

Results over time will test the notion of what the optimal configuration is. (My prediction is 300 lbs crew weight with the woman at the helm one year into the quad.)

One very clear trend is that NONE of the competitors are from any new countries competing in Olympic Sailing... Sadly, the grow the Olympic Sport is not looking good at the start where you might have thought some countries would put their toe in the water and see how competitive they are. Perhaps more countries will show up at the worlds in the summer... ISAF made the case that the mixed Olympic multihull could spread the olympic movement... right now... its the usual suspects but it is too early to call.

The two new events... mixed multis and womans skiff have about the same number of competitors. The demand for woman racing high performance boats is huge... The ISAF goal of gender equitiy is being hit out of the park.

One of the USA Sarah's that sailed well at the Miami OCR is doing very well in.... 470s.... (How does that song go... Fathers teach your daughters to Sail)

So... that is all for absolutely premature.. jump the gun sweeping conclusions!

Sarah N and John C are in 10th of 34 boats after 3 races... go USA!


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258683
04/02/13 04:34 PM
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Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: Mark Schneider] #258685
04/02/13 06:23 PM
04/02/13 06:23 PM
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Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
S
One of the USA Sarah's that sailed well at the Miami OCR is doing very well in.... 470s.... (How does that song go... Fathers teach your daughters to Sail)
!


It is worth noting that the Sarah you are referring to, Sarah Lihan, was a 2012 OIympian crewing in the 470. She sailed the 2012 games with Amanda Clark. This week she is sailing with Sydney Bolger, who was the 2012 Women's College Sailor of the Year. They are currently leading Annie Haeger... who was the 2011 Women's College Sailor of the year!


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Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258696
04/03/13 09:19 AM
04/03/13 09:19 AM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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My take is SN/JC are having a pretty dang good first event on the world stage. Look at the competition, you have Mischa Heemskerk one place above Team USA...

College sailing means little on the international stage Jeff this is the 2016 Olympic cycle not a repeat of the 2012 Olympic cycle.


Scorpion F18
Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258706
04/03/13 12:22 PM
04/03/13 12:22 PM
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Jeff.Dusek Offline
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I'm merely pointing out that our best young sailors are making the jump into Olympic Sailing, which is a very good thing. Read into that what you will, but I still thing college sailing has value, but only as a component of preparation.


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Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258711
04/03/13 12:44 PM
04/03/13 12:44 PM
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Pensacola Florida
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Tom Whitehurst Offline
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As for M/F its pretty windy and the top 2 are women at the helm. More than 1/2 round out most of the top 10 also. Interesting that all 3 NED teams are also W at the helm.

This is just the start!


Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258717
04/03/13 02:40 PM
04/03/13 02:40 PM
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samc99us Offline
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Jeff fair point I agree there is value in college sailing from a tactics and racing rules standpoint, we all know getting young blood into performance boats ASAP is key to the U.S's performance on the world stage.

Very interesting on the W helm stats but not too surprising, sail plan is powered up despite the current aluminum rigs!


Scorpion F18
Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: samc99us] #258723
04/03/13 03:59 PM
04/03/13 03:59 PM
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Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Originally Posted by samc99us

Very interesting on the W helm stats but not too surprising,


Beth said it's because no woman can trust a man behind her.


Jay

Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: samc99us] #258724
04/03/13 04:31 PM
04/03/13 04:31 PM
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Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Originally Posted by samc99us
Jeff fair point I agree there is value in college sailing from a tactics and racing rules standpoint, we all know getting young blood into performance boats ASAP is key to the U.S's performance on the world stage.

Very interesting on the W helm stats but not too surprising, sail plan is powered up despite the current aluminum rigs!


I've been following the twitter feed and results very closely the last couple days. One thing that is striking, and present across most of our sailors (Bolger/Lihan might be an exception), is that we underperform in big breeze and do very well in light/shifty conditions. Just look at the results for today (light) compared to the last two days and it is very obvious.

There could be a couple reasons for this:
1. Our primary Olympic training site (Miami) is very light
2. Most college sailing venues are light and flat
3. Junior programs are shying away from sailing in big breeze (maybe, not sure)
4. We need to suck it up and just freakin' send it when it's big out there

I noticed the same trend at the F18 Worlds- our crews did substantially better in the lighter breeze compared to the Europeans who walked away in the breeze.

Good news is that we have a good foundation for the light air skills, and developing heavy air skills comes down to seeking out the conditions and not being afraid to go for it. Maybe we should all train in Hawaii!


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Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #258725
04/03/13 04:35 PM
04/03/13 04:35 PM
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california
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Originally Posted by Jeff.Dusek
Originally Posted by samc99us
Jeff fair point I agree there is value in college sailing from a tactics and racing rules standpoint, we all know getting young blood into performance boats ASAP is key to the U.S's performance on the world stage.

Very interesting on the W helm stats but not too surprising, sail plan is powered up despite the current aluminum rigs!


I've been following the twitter feed and results very closely the last couple days. One thing that is striking, and present across most of our sailors (Bolger/Lihan might be an exception), is that we underperform in big breeze and do very well in light/shifty conditions. Just look at the results for today (light) compared to the last two days and it is very obvious.

There could be a couple reasons for this:
1. Our primary Olympic training site (Miami) is very light
2. Most college sailing venues are light and flat
3. Junior programs are shying away from sailing in big breeze (maybe, not sure)
4. We need to suck it up and just freakin' send it when it's big out there

I noticed the same trend at the F18 Worlds- our crews did substantially better in the lighter breeze compared to the Europeans who walked away in the breeze.

Good news is that we have a good foundation for the light air skills, and developing heavy air skills comes down to seeking out the conditions and not being afraid to go for it. Maybe we should all train in Hawaii!


or San Francisco.


Richard Vilvens
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Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #258726
04/03/13 05:26 PM
04/03/13 05:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
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Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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The observation is that your success is based on your history.... Growing up in big breeze means that you will be a good big breeze sailor... OR vice versa... growing up sailing light air equals a light air sailor. So, this is basically a trivial observation.

The key question is.. How much time on the water and coaching are needed to compensate for the lack of experience and skill for US sailors who don't train in much breeze. And can you go both ways with this.

I have no idea where the US Team encamped for Weymouth.... Clearly it did not work. So far ... our track record stinks at this game.

So... Do you conclude that it takes too long to get the heavy air skills up to world class standards? Is it even possible to turn a weakness into a strength in a quad?
I don't know.

Of course, the US tends to focus exclusively on the next Olympic venue... Generally, these events are supposed to be light air venues.. and so Miami was deemed the right location for a training center. This is an example of working on your strength... not working on your weakness.
Rio is supposed to be a light air venue... Do you make the case that all the US has to do is qualify the country in the heavy air EU events ,... you don't have to actually win events there... So, Continue to train for your strength the light air venue of Rio.

I don't think there are easy answers on this one.
Personally, I think that time in the Olympic sailing style from a young age is fundamental to success... Then you work on your weaknesses and maintain your strengths.

The first year of results for the two new classes Woman's skiffs and N17s could shed some light on this issue of sailing background and how it matches up to performance results in breeze or light air.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258729
04/04/13 04:24 AM
04/04/13 04:24 AM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Today another light one over at Palma, Friday and Saturday will see considerably more wind.
Wind on Saturday will be sideshore/offshore so waves should be ok.

[Linked Image]


Race 7 just got underway: "Start race 7, Nacra 17 at 11:13h. Wind 280, 5 to 7 knots."

Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258731
04/04/13 07:04 AM
04/04/13 07:04 AM
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SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
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Sweet! Sarah and JC got a bullet in race 4F! Now in 4th overall.

Last edited by rehmbo; 04/04/13 07:06 AM.

Jeff R

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Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258732
04/04/13 07:45 AM
04/04/13 07:45 AM
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SE MI / NE IN
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According to US sailing twitter feed, wind speed was 14kts.


Jeff R

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Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258735
04/04/13 01:17 PM
04/04/13 01:17 PM
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Can someone explain the half-arsed scoring system
The first 6 races were just practise?


Paul

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Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258736
04/04/13 03:58 PM
04/04/13 03:58 PM
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Daytona Beach Florida
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orphan Offline
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Anyone have an reason the Sara/JC DSQ in race F3?
Scoring is wacked. Hope this is something just for this regatta?

Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: orphan] #258737
04/04/13 04:29 PM
04/04/13 04:29 PM
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Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Originally Posted by orphan
Anyone have an reason the Sara/JC DSQ in race F3?
Scoring is wacked. Hope this is something just for this regatta?


Broke rule 11 on an offset leg.

See here: http://www2.trofeoprincesasofia.org/en/default/toa/protestsummary


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Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #258738
04/04/13 04:38 PM
04/04/13 04:38 PM
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Orlando, FL
tback Offline
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After rounding the offset mark NED 044 was third. Her spinaker fell down in water, her bow
dived breaking spinaker pool. NED 044 was on close hauled course on starboard tack without
speed six boat lenghts from the offset mark. After FRA 039 cleared the offset mark she was on
colission course with NED 044 and overlapped to leeward of USA 104, both of them on
starboard tack. FRA 039 did not hoist her spinaker. USA 104 bore away. There was contact
with damage between FRA 039 port floater bow and NED 044 starboard side of starboard
floater. NED 044 has two holes on starboard side of starboard floater, one smaller on the bow
and one bigger one meter back.

Conclusion: By not keeping clear of FRA 039 and bearing off, USA 104 infringed rule 11 causing FRA 039
to hit NED 044. FRA 039 infringed rule 11 and 14 but is exonerated under rule 64.1 (a) since
she was compelled to break a rule by USA 104.

So my take: Sara/JC hoisted and couldn't keep height with the spi flying to keep from going down on NED and causing a chain of contact.


USA 777
Re: Olympic sailing World Cup stop #2 Palma [Re: catandahalf] #258739
04/04/13 05:49 PM
04/04/13 05:49 PM
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Philip
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