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Wave Rudders Needed #259756
05/21/13 03:01 PM
05/21/13 03:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 22
New Jersey
Bob_Fraser Offline OP
stranger
Bob_Fraser  Offline OP
stranger
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 22
New Jersey
I bought a wave without any rudders for a great price. My dealer told me that a new pair of rudders and crossbar would cost about $1,000.00. I wanted to know what my options might be and/or help in getting a used set of rudders. I understand that the rudders and castings on a 17, 18, 20, Wave, & Getaway are the same. Your expertise on holding expenses to a minimum would be appreciated.

Bob Fraser
H20 1011


Bob Fraser
H20
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Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Bob_Fraser] #259761
05/21/13 05:22 PM
05/21/13 05:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by Bob_Fraser
I bought a wave without any rudders for a great price. My dealer told me that a new pair of rudders and crossbar would cost about $1,000.00. I wanted to know what my options might be and/or help in getting a used set of rudders. I understand that the rudders and castings on a 17, 18, 20, Wave, & Getaway are the same. Your expertise on holding expenses to a minimum would be appreciated.

Bob Fraser
H20 1011


All of those boats have what you need. You will have to get the Wave tiller arm tubes only, and cut a x-bar to fit the narrower boat.

If you are lucky you might find a beater 18 for less than a grand. Part it out and you should get free rudders for your Wave.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Mugrace72] #259762
05/21/13 07:21 PM
05/21/13 07:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 22
New Jersey
Bob_Fraser Offline OP
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Bob_Fraser  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 22
New Jersey
Thanks for responding Jack.
I have fond memories of skippering your 20 flying your spinny 3 up off Sandy Hook the day after a SHBCC Statue Race. I wanted to confirm that I was on the right track before I invested in parts that would not work together. Not that I have found them yet.
By the way I really liked the 10 to 1 mainsheet on your boat and although I tied to replicate it with an 8 to 1 setup I'm not happy with it. It could be lack of maintenance though.


Bob Fraser
H20
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Bob_Fraser] #259783
05/22/13 03:00 PM
05/22/13 03:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 901
Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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samc99us  Offline
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Solomon's Island, MD
I think the rudder castings on the Wave are a little newer, there are some fitting issues with the gudgeons depending on 1 piece or 2 piece. Just double check before you buy-shame the style you are looking for, post 87' w/ Miracle-20 connectors to the crossbar are also the most expensive and darn near impossible to find used. There's a reason your boat was cheap! I might suggest the EPO rudders as well, they are a fair bit nicer feeling than the plastic variety.

Be careful modifying mainsheet systems. If it feels unhappy it probably is. We blew up a 8:1 mainsheet system adding a 9:1 purchase block while offshore in a leg of the Tybee 500 (I forget which, we broke a lot of stuff) on the N20. Harken was fantastic and replaced the damaged bits but I recommend using as designed.

Last edited by samc99us; 05/22/13 03:00 PM.

F18 Infusion
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Bob_Fraser] #259786
05/22/13 04:50 PM
05/22/13 04:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by Bob_Fraser
Thanks for responding Jack.
I have fond memories of skippering your 20 flying your spinny 3 up off Sandy Hook the day after a SHBCC Statue Race. I wanted to confirm that I was on the right track before I invested in parts that would not work together. Not that I have found them yet.


Still want to get back and do another Liberty Race. Perhaps on the Wave with spinny!

The 20 has different rudder blades than the others, but EPOs are nice if you want y to spend the $$$. You don't need them to be competitive.

All the castings will work. Tiller arm tubes are the main difference boat-to-boat.



Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Bob_Fraser] #259819
05/23/13 02:17 PM
05/23/13 02:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
IndyWave Offline
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IndyWave  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
What year are your hulls? The castings are not universally interchangeable, since the pins are different on newer boats (made for EZ-Loc rudders, since 2006), verses the obsolete style (like for H17s, etc...).

You can tell the year by the end of the serial numbers.


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: IndyWave] #259820
05/23/13 02:55 PM
05/23/13 02:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by IndyWave
What year are your hulls? The castings are not universally interchangeable, since the pins are different on newer boats (made for EZ-Loc rudders, since 2006), verses the obsolete style (like for H17s, etc...).

You can tell the year by the end of the serial numbers.


The old style rudders fit just fine on the EZ-Lock style pins.

You can't put EZs on the older boats without changing the pins.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Bob_Fraser] #259831
05/23/13 08:07 PM
05/23/13 08:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,946
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brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
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I have a pretty new boat, with a really old rudder system (came off an old Wave, so they weren't ancient). It does not (yet) have the Miracle-style connectors, and it is a pain to manage without them (installing, removing, storage). That will be my next upgrade.

The old castings fit just fine on the new pintles. Those pintles are a MAJOR pain to remove, and not cheap to replace, so don't bother. All you need to do is add a spacer between the top of the casting and the keeper pin hole. I use some wooden drawer pulls from Home Depot, drilled out and shaved down to size. Works great.

For the Madcatter this year, I finally installed my new rudders. These were white racing rudders from a H16, which were bought as spares jest before the new EPOs hit the market, but were never used. The H16 holes were filled with Marine Tex, and the rudders were redrilled to H17 specs. This worked much, much better than the old plastic ones that came with the castings (which weren't even the same color).

I added a tiller last year, and I am having a love/hate relationship with that. Takes me 3-4 races before I remember not to try to throw it around the back like on the H16. That does not make for good tacks...

Anyway, I learned most of what I know about these rudders from Jim Glanden (and quite a bit of sailing tips from Mimi). I hope this shared info helps. Let us know how you make out.

Mike

Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: brucat] #259846
05/24/13 10:44 AM
05/24/13 10:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
veteran
mmiller  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
The EZ LOC (current) rudder system is by far the least expensive replacement option and the dealer is correct... just over $1,061 (USA / USD / 5-2013) plus possible freight. Aluminum castings and rudders are far more expensive.

1 39524001 TILLER XBAR WAVE "EZ LOC"
2 39312000 WAVE EZ LOC RUDDER ASSY
2 90880211 PINTLE UPR - EZ LOC
2 90880221 PINTLE LWR - EZ LOC
12 8030411 SCREW 12-24X3/4 LONG LOCK PHMS


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Bob_Fraser] #259903
05/29/13 05:15 PM
05/29/13 05:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 22
New Jersey
Bob_Fraser Offline OP
stranger
Bob_Fraser  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 22
New Jersey
Thanks to everybody that provided advice. Since I have not found a decent set of used rudders that I could re-purpose it looks like I will buy new. Now to figure out what I need to get the spinnaker that came (minus a pole) with the boat. This will be a hoot to sail this summer when I don't have my regular crew on the 20.


Bob Fraser
H20
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Bob_Fraser] #259904
05/29/13 05:22 PM
05/29/13 05:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 22
New Jersey
Bob_Fraser Offline OP
stranger
Bob_Fraser  Offline OP
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New Jersey
Matt,
Is the EZ LOC Rudder plastic?


Bob Fraser
H20
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Bob_Fraser] #260004
06/04/13 10:00 AM
06/04/13 10:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
veteran
mmiller  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
Yes, plastic housings and rudders.

The EZ Loc system is performing flawlessly at resorts etc, so has proved to be very robust. Super easy to use.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Bob_Fraser] #260095
06/06/13 09:15 PM
06/06/13 09:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,946
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brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,946
Surviving resort life is certainly the acid test of durability!

I switched to the old system on the new boat, but other than being able to raise a rudder, I doubt there's much improvement for racing. And when it's windy, there's no time for messing with lifting rudders!

Mike

Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: brucat] #260101
06/07/13 06:23 AM
06/07/13 06:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
Never saw the reasoning behind lifting a rudder. Since the rudders are effectively the daggerboards, why not have more underwater lift?


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Bob_Fraser] #260760
06/28/13 11:20 AM
06/28/13 11:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,946
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,946
Because all the fast 16 guys do it? Theoretically less drag, but it's not worth the hassle when it's windy. Don't know if it really helps at all, actually.

Mike

Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: brucat] #260767
06/28/13 01:18 PM
06/28/13 01:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 490
catandahalf Offline
addict
catandahalf  Offline
addict
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 490
Carlton Tucker did it ... so it worked. He was reputable for driving through waves on any cat design with the windward rudder up - no matter how much pressure - I believe he inspired Randy into it, as well.

Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: Bob_Fraser] #260777
06/29/13 12:06 AM
06/29/13 12:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 901
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
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samc99us  Offline
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Posts: 901
Solomon's Island, MD
Mischa does the same on the F18 jib reaching same tack for long periods of time. Is only fast if the weather hull is constantly clear IMO and the helmsman is very good. For buoys racing I'd leave both down.


F18 Infusion
Re: Wave Rudders Needed [Re: RickWhite] #260783
06/29/13 07:24 AM
06/29/13 07:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
old hand
Mugrace72  Offline
old hand
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by RickWhite
Never saw the reasoning behind lifting a rudder. Since the rudders are effectively the daggerboards, why not have more underwater lift?


WEEDS! That's when it is worthwhile.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay

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