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Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! #253485
10/15/12 08:03 AM
10/15/12 08:03 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8
Seabrook, TX
Sailinghoutx Offline OP
stranger
Sailinghoutx  Offline OP
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Seabrook, TX
I need some advice. I was sailing my 1987 Prindle 19 on Galveston Bay today, it was blowing 20 with gusts and choppy. The starboard bridle wire tab/tang, the point where it attaches to the hull snapped off. Looks like metal fatigue. It didn't pull through, there is no glass damage to the hull. How do I make this repair? I'm guessing the deck is going to have to come off. I have no idea what this tang attaches to "inside" the hull and I'm also thinking that if the starboard one failed then the port side should also be looked at and replaced. Can I find these parts and how do I make the repairs? Any help is much appreciated. I'm freaking out at the thought of taking it to a glass shop, looks like $$$$. Once I find out what the inner hull support is (the backing plate), I'm thinking about using a 1/2" x 3" SS strap similar to the shroud chain plate and just mount it to the outside of the hull and drill and tap it to the backing plate. I was going to post a couple of photos but not sure how to post images on this site.

I really need to see photos of the backing plate or what-ever the bridle tab is attached to so I can make a decision.

Thanks in advance

Morris
Seabrook, TX

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hi28arvy38eqn4p/7NkMJQUzEK[/img]


Morris Covin

Prindle 16 sail #5229
Prindle 16 sail #8647
Current ride; Prindle 19 sail #309
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #253490
10/15/12 10:01 AM
10/15/12 10:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
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Posts: 774
Greenville SC
I think last year I read that the decks were still available from performance. Careful work with a thin chisel or scraper will get the deck removed.

Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #253492
10/15/12 10:21 AM
10/15/12 10:21 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8
Seabrook, TX
Sailinghoutx Offline OP
stranger
Sailinghoutx  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8
Seabrook, TX
I have searched all over the internet and cannot find a good number for Performance. Was told NACRA bought them and all their tooling. Problem is, I can't find any numbers for NACRA here in the USA, only Europe and Australia.


Morris Covin

Prindle 16 sail #5229
Prindle 16 sail #8647
Current ride; Prindle 19 sail #309
Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #253495
10/15/12 10:32 AM
10/15/12 10:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Also be sure to use a fitting that fits tightly to the tang...that shackle has a lot of room for the pin to slide side-to-side on the tang which exacerbates the side loading and eventual stress fatigue of the tang. If the shackle spends most of it's time with the tang slid all the way to one end of the pin, it's putting a lot of twisting load on the hull tang. At least put some spacers on the pin of the tang so it stays centered or use a shackle made for the width of the tang (I've got a couple of stamped ones that are made for soft lines but I can't recall where I got them).

The boat has a lot of age on it, so it's unlikely this caused the problem...but it didn't help.


Jake Kohl
Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #253496
10/15/12 10:45 AM
10/15/12 10:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
old hand

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
Originally Posted by Sailinghoutx
I have searched all over the internet and cannot find a good number for Performance. Was told NACRA bought them and all their tooling. Problem is, I can't find any numbers for NACRA here in the USA, only Europe and Australia.


Try the cat house.

Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #253506
10/15/12 11:56 AM
10/15/12 11:56 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8
Seabrook, TX
Sailinghoutx Offline OP
stranger
Sailinghoutx  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8
Seabrook, TX
Jake, thanks for the suggestion. Actually, I might have contributed to the breakage. I just switched over from the SS 1x19 bridle wire to using 1/8" Amsteel and the "D" shackle to attach to tang. My thoughts on using the D shackle was once the boat was rigged and the forestay was under load the bridle line/shackle wouldn't move anymore than the stock fork wire fitting. There is no doubt that corrosion played a big part. You can tell from the photo but your thoughts have me thinking.


Morris Covin

Prindle 16 sail #5229
Prindle 16 sail #8647
Current ride; Prindle 19 sail #309
Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #253510
10/15/12 01:54 PM
10/15/12 01:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
I don't think your idea of drilling into the backing plate will work. I haven't been inside that part of a 19 but I think you'll find the tang goes into the hull and crosses over to the other side. It does not go down the inside of the hull.

You can check that by taking a razor knife and carefully scrape around the bottom edge of that opening. If the plate goes down you'll be able to feel it with the blade. If it slides in without hitting then you can assume it crosses over.

Some times you can cut a hole to gain access but it this case if the tang crosses over it's most likely bolted to a glass plate that's bonded or glassed between the hulls, meaning the deck will have to come off to gain access to those bolts.


Have Fun
Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: catman] #253511
10/15/12 01:56 PM
10/15/12 01:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
You can find tangs at Racelite.


Have Fun
Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: catman] #253530
10/16/12 08:03 AM
10/16/12 08:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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catman  Offline
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
One other piece of advise regarding the P-19. Tap the inside of the hull and locate all the bulkheads. Use some paint and make a mark on the tramp track underneath so you can locate them easily when over. Only step on those spots during righting. Otherwise as the hull flexes in where you stand you risk tearing the inside laminate. Shortly there after you will notice the outer laminate puckering outwards. Not good. I have fixed two of these recently. Probably good for all boats.


Have Fun
Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #259725
05/20/13 07:07 AM
05/20/13 07:07 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2
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LaserCat Offline
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Posts: 2
Morris, I just got the same issue last week end with my Prindle 18.2. The bridle wire tang broke out exactly the same way than yours.
I was just curious to know how you eventually managed to fix it?
Pierre

Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #259732
05/20/13 02:30 PM
05/20/13 02:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 524
Petten Netherlands
N
northsea junkie Offline
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northsea junkie  Offline
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Petten Netherlands
I shouldn't be bothered by making a larger hole on both sides of the remaining tang in the hull. Yyou can always fill this up later and repair it with pieces of laminate padwise.
So make room, don't go tinkering in a too small workarea.

If you have made room at both flat sides of the remaining tang, you can then problably mount two strips of metal (INOX 316) with a bolt, facing on each side. Fold the strips together above the tang, drill a hole in this and you have a new eye.

Fill the working hole with thickened epoxy and pad everything on the outside with a thick laminate.

Finally use two shackles behind each other to make the connection to the new eye. There are small and very strong ones from titanium on the market. With two shackles the wire can move more freely in every direction.

If you don't trust the strenght of this solution you can enforce it by placing two extra bended strips alongside the new eye before laminating the outside. So you anker the whole thing also on the outside of the hull.



ronald
RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)

hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?..
"huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #259766
05/22/13 06:44 AM
05/22/13 06:44 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2
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LaserCat Offline
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Thank you Ronald. However, the main issue is that the tang is broken about 1cm inside the hull. So the tang disappears inside the hull and I have no idea about the tang shape and I do not know where it is fixed inside the hull.
Sailinghoutx put some pictures of the broken tang on a dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hi28arvy38eqn4p/7NkMJQUzEK
Mine is broken almost the same way.
Pierre

Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #259769
05/22/13 08:55 AM
05/22/13 08:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 524
Petten Netherlands
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northsea junkie Offline
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Petten Netherlands
I understand you Pierre, but my point is that it doesn't matter where the tang is fixed inside the hull.

You can just assume that nothing is wrong with the final fixation from the tang somewhere in the hull. (otherwise it was broken there!)

So you make room above and just under the tangstrip as far you need the clearance for drilling a hole in the topend of this tangstrip and fixing a bolt through the tangstrip and the two new strips for lengtening the tang to its original size.
In this ""room-making"" you follow the shape of the tang; which I don't know either. It means that you have to cut (saw) anyway a groof in the deckside. Worst problem which you can encounter is when the tang goes vertically down. In that case you have to drill a hole from outside the hull in the tangstrip for the fixation of the strips.
You can then also consider the possibility of taping thread instead of bolting.

I agree it is then becoming a hell of a job; but I personally would take that risk before removing and fixing the whole deckside. Though I've done this once long time ago in the summer on the beach (somewhere deep South-France) on a dart-18.

Last edited by northsea junkie; 05/22/13 08:56 AM.

ronald
RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)

hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?..
"huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #259798
05/23/13 07:58 AM
05/23/13 07:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
H
Hullflyer1 Offline
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Hullflyer1  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
I have replaced broken bridal bow tangs on both nacra 5.8s and P-19s. They are shaped like a cross or a T. The "T" portion is shaped to conform to the inside of the hull where the deck and hull meet. They are glassed in. I used a hole saw with a 5 or 6 inch saw and drilled out a hole on the inboard side of the hull just across from the tang. I used it in reverse to get a good clean hole. I then used a small fiberglass removal wheel attached to a drill and removed the glass and remainder of the tang, put some mat and glass on the inside, placed the new tang in place using vise grips to hold it firmly in place, some more glass on the inside.
after it cured I closed up the hole I made using the cut out piece. I have one of the tangs and will take a picture and send it to you if you like. Hullflyer1@netzero.com

Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: Sailinghoutx] #259802
05/23/13 09:01 AM
05/23/13 09:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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HMurphey  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
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SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
Let's see if I understand this correctly since I do have a P-19MX w/ spin ...

The bridle tang is shaped like a 'T' ... mounted upside down w/ the stem of the 'T' upward ... and the top of the 'T' is mounted for-aft just under the deck -lip/gunwale and "glassed" in place ...

Is this correct ...???

It is much easier to work thro a larger hole ... and is just as much work to repair properly then a smaller hole ...

you can use a hole saw but expensive to get one that makes a large enough hole ... I just cut square hole using a jig-saw set at 30* bevel ... like carving a pumpkin ... install a lip and then replace piece cut-out and re-skin the outside ... your most important finishing tool will be a wooden sanding block so as to have a 'fair' patch w/o ripples ... and the palm of your hand, cause you need to feel the ripples ... and spend the time hand-sanding between changing sandpaper grits ...

Harry Murphey
P-19MX w/ spin
H18Mag


Last edited by HMurphey; 05/23/13 09:09 AM. Reason: more info
Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: HMurphey] #259809
05/23/13 09:28 AM
05/23/13 09:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
A trick I've used in the past is to cut several pieces of wood tongue depressors and glue them to the inside surface of the hole so they overlap the repair piece. Clamp them in place with clothes pins or something similar. Once they cure, they'll provide a shelf for the cut-out repair piece to sit on so your exterior is perfectly flush.

Be sure to mark a line with a stabilo or wax pencil so you can align the cut-out properly back in the hole (particularly if you are cutting a round hole). This way if there is any discrepancy in the thickness of the skin or core, it won't cause you issues later during fairing.


Jake Kohl
Re: Prindle 19 bridle wire tab/tang snapped off at hull. HELP! [Re: HMurphey] #259840
05/24/13 05:30 AM
05/24/13 05:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
H
Hullflyer1 Offline
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Hullflyer1  Offline
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Yes that is correct (an unside down T) I had a friend who worked in a shop making fish tanks and he let me borrow the large hole saw.


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