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Re: New Game change Toys Coming..What games will they play in? [Re: Dlennard] #259825
05/23/13 05:06 PM
05/23/13 05:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by Dlennard
Originally Posted by ksurfer2
Originally Posted by Dlennard
Originally Posted by samc99us
Mark here is my breakdown for this years F18 campaign:

3 day weekend events:
8 hr drive each way=500 miles round trip=$100 in fuel+$50 in tolls=$150.
Hotel=$125*3=$375
Food=$30/person/day=$180
Booze=$50
Regatta Entry Fee=$75
Total=$830

Fortunately most regatta sites have camping available so you get closer to $500 for a weekend.

Nationals:
Entry Fee: $375
Fuel: $315
Food: 7*30*2: $420
Housing: Free for me (family next to the 2013 site)
Total: $1110

Catacup:
Entry Fee: $1000
Airfare: 700*2=$1400
Food: 6*50*2=$600
Incidentals=$300
Total=$3300

We're doing ~4x weekend travel events (sailing near every weekend)+Nationals+Catacup=$7730 in travel costs.

I'm looking at a new jib and spinnaker before Nationals at the least so another $2K in sails. Factor in about $2k in incidentals (broken parts, spar parts, insurance, trailer maintenance etc.), and you're at $11,730. My boat cost a little over $12K.

Looking at the costs, the easiest way to cut back is on food and hotels, not much you can do about the rest. Fortunately food is included in many race registrations and my number is based on our Tybee 500 numbers from years past. Also my teammate is a good cook and knows how to eat well for cheap, so money can be saved. Knock on wood we keep the boat in one piece so things are a little bit cheaper there.

But these numbers prove a point, the cost of the boat isn't really that much relative to the cost of campaigning. Just that it's a big one time hit versus smaller hits over time.

If I owned a flying boat I'd be hard pressed to do a major distance race with it unless sponsored by the boat manufacturer. I know I'm a pussy when it comes to foils (comes with being an air head) but I have seen new boats go through foils faster than the dollar bills could escape the wallet in major distance races. So that would leave travel events, oh wait no class, then your down to portsmouth events which locally are basically steeplechase distance races.


I think that is why sailing is on the decline the cost is just to much unless you can sail at your local club and don't have far to drive. To do our regatta series cost me around 3,300.00 for fuel and entry fees per year and 120 hours of driving. The mountain biking for 6 races cost 270.00 for fuel and entry (can carpool) and I won 335.00 so out of pocket was zero.


While that is certainly a valid argument it is not exactly comparing apples to apples. I can run a 5k every weekend locally nearly every weekend for the cost of a pair of running shoes and some nominal entry fees, but that is not my choice of sport, sailing is. Now compare the cost of campaigning a F18 to the cost of a melges 24 and see how we look!


True, just pointing out that at some point sailing is not as fun when cost and driving become to high. If I lived in Fl like you it would be my favorite sport. I would guess that younger sailors do not have the budget to go to a lot of regattas let along the cost of the new boats. My first H 16 brand new was 5,500.00 and a weekend regatta cost 30.00 just to show my age.


Geography is huge in the cashflow equation.
So far nothing production is foiling consistently. jumping out of the water and crashing down, is not foiling.
It'd be a no go for me anyway. My weight kills me already in the A class ,pair that with foiling the boat and it ain't gonna happen. As usual I think everyone is getting in a dither( The King ditherer started the thread) about nothing. Just see how it shakes out.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: New Game change Toys Coming..What games will they play in? [Re: Mark Schneider] #259826
05/23/13 05:10 PM
05/23/13 05:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
New Boat $23,000.
Trailer $3000.
Boxes $3000.
Fuel to Americas Championship and back $2300.
Hotel at Americas for 10 days $1200.
600 miles round trip for every regatta (at a minimum) X 10 about $300 per trip. $3000.
I don't want to figure out the rest.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: New Game change Toys Coming..What games will they play in? [Re: F-18 5150] #259832
05/23/13 08:50 PM
05/23/13 08:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline OP
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Mark Schneider  Offline OP
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Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
So.... the cost of a campaign for 10 events or so is between 10 and 15 K so... in three years... you have spent about the price of another new boat.

The key point I want to make is... YOU HAVE 10 EVENTS to go to...

I don't care how great a new boat is or it's cost... the campaign costs match the boat in about three years....
Geography and distance are a problem and hurt the fun factor.
The price of campaigns factors into your fun factor meter.
Critical mass at regattas plays a huge role in your fun factor meter.

The key point is that the fabulous new toy (yes Todd... they will get it right) is useless without 10 events to go to.

Building a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door... err.. Maybe not in catamaran racing.





crac.sailregattas.com
Re: New Game change Toys Coming..What games will they play in? [Re: samc99us] #259834
05/23/13 09:41 PM
05/23/13 09:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by samc99us
Karl, in true jealous fashion any news on the Foiling Viper upgrade package? That might be the ticket, F16 by day and weapon by night...


I asked, but I don't remember what the price tag was on it. It was spendy, but nothing super obscene. I want to say it was a bit less than the cost of buying three boards.


A few years ago I kept rough track of how much I spent on sailing. It was well north of $10k, and I stopped keeping track. Sail wear and tear, vehicle depreciation/fuel/maintanance, coaching, housing, trailer maintenance, and boat cost. It gets to be quite a bit in pretty short order.

Hell, a normal semi local weekend regatta typically costs me $400 just in immediate expenses, (fuel/housing/entry fees)

Its 3400 miles to Founders Park from here, its usually at least $1k in fuel.

Gotta pay to play. Still some of the cheapest racing available that requires anything more than simple equipment like running, skiing, bicycles, etc


I'm boatless.
Re: New Game change Toys Coming..What games will they play in? [Re: Dlennard] #259836
05/23/13 09:52 PM
05/23/13 09:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Dlennard
Originally Posted by ksurfer2


While that is certainly a valid argument it is not exactly comparing apples to apples. I can run a 5k every weekend locally nearly every weekend for the cost of a pair of running shoes and some nominal entry fees, but that is not my choice of sport, sailing is. Now compare the cost of campaigning a F18 to the cost of a melges 24 and see how we look!


True, just pointing out that at some point sailing is not as fun when cost and driving become to high. If I lived in Fl like you it would be my favorite sport. I would guess that younger sailors do not have the budget to go to a lot of regattas let along the cost of the new boats. My first H 16 brand new was 5,500.00 and a weekend regatta cost 30.00 just to show my age.


That's why I just bought a J22 - so I can sail more (assimilating with my local club) and travel/spend less. The cat is still, by far, my preference but I'm enjoying this too.


Jake Kohl
Re: New Game change Toys Coming..What games will they play in? [Re: Jake] #259837
05/23/13 10:12 PM
05/23/13 10:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Originally Posted by Jake

That's why I just bought a J22


EWWWW...THAT'S NASTY!
I threw up a little bit when I read that
laugh

Re: New Game change Toys Coming..What games will they play in? [Re: Jake] #259841
05/24/13 07:17 AM
05/24/13 07:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
old hand
ksurfer2  Offline
old hand
K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
Originally Posted by Jake
I just bought a J22 - so I can sail more (assimilating with my local club)


I hope you name it "The Borg"!


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: New Game change Toys Coming..What games will they play in? [Re: Mark Schneider] #259842
05/24/13 08:49 AM
05/24/13 08:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Living in a small country had its benefits I guess, I never have to drive more than two and a half hours to get to any regatta in the country.
Usually it's only about an hour for 75% of regattas.

Driving to the Worlds will be the longest drive this year with about 1600kms.

Re: New Game change Toys Coming..What games will they play in? [Re: ksurfer2] #259845
05/24/13 09:55 AM
05/24/13 09:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by ksurfer2
Originally Posted by Jake
I just bought a J22 - so I can sail more (assimilating with my local club)


I hope you name it "The Borg"!


Actually, I was planning to re name it "Sid K". It's the acronym for my response everytime someone asks me something about the boat - what's the draft, how do you start the outboard, how to handle the symmetrical spinnaker (who came up with that stupid ****?), tuning methods, mast rake...etc. It's actually kinda fun sailing in that "let's figure it out" mode again....and we're pretty quick as it is having won a club race last weekend.

SID K is "****, I don't know".

But, "the borg" is interesting (or perhaps a slightly more insider name like "Locotus")


Jake Kohl
Re: New Game change Toys Coming..What games will they play in? [Re: P.M.] #259881
05/28/13 08:10 AM
05/28/13 08:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
old hand
samc99us  Offline
old hand
S

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
Originally Posted by mummp
Originally Posted by samc99us

Booze=$50

weak


Paying for your booze is weak. Get that for free.


Scorpion F18
Re: New Game change Toys Coming..What games will they play in? [Re: samc99us] #259885
05/28/13 12:31 PM
05/28/13 12:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by samc99us


Paying for your booze is weak. Get that for free.


I'd love to, but my pole dancing skills are far from what are needed for free drinks... even at "those kind" of bars.


Jay

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