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Rules Changes #259773
05/22/13 11:28 AM
05/22/13 11:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline OP
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samc99us  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2009
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Solomon's Island, MD
Guys,

What is the process for getting a rules change passed in the F18 class? I'm curious for my own edification and because I'd like to look at Rule E.3.2, dagger board construction materials. Currently, there is no real limit in these materials, although the rules are closed and technically using anything besides carbon and glass is banned. I am proposing we allow the use of kevlar in the dagger boards. High modulus, and ultra high modulus carbon as being used in some of the boats is very expensive, price per gram is easily 2x the price of kevlar. Now why do we even care? Yes I'm an exception but we've run aground close to half a dozen times now. The shallow areas in our training site are not marked. We are no longer carrying the stock Infusion boards (~5' 6" long) fully down when in the river, the risk of finding the bottom is too great. Our boards are the longest in the fleet of N20, F16's and A-cats we race against on weeknights. Anyway, touching the bottom isn't good for the boards of course, or the hull trunks. At least in the Mk. 1 infusion boards there isn't much besides carbon and some glass in the trailing edge, and basically pure glass on the bottom. If kevlar were allowed in these areas, you'd have tougher boards for very minor cost increases to the manufacturer. When your trailing edge starts flaking, at least the kevlar strands remain intact and help hold everything together.

Maybe I'm smoking crack, and it is all for not as the best boards are pure UHM carbon along the TE and adding kevlar for impact toughness isn't going to help much. And maybe the manufacturers don't care cause we'll just buy new boards when they get too badly chipped to bother fixing, so it's in their best interest to have the boards chip easily.


Scorpion F18
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Rules Changes [Re: samc99us] #259793
05/23/13 07:56 AM
05/23/13 07:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
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Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Jeff.Dusek  Offline
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Boston, Ma
Pretty sure the process would go something like this:
1. Draft you rule proposal and submit to the US Class Association.
2. The US Class would consider whether to pass the proposed amendment on to the world council.
3. The US Class President would submit the proposed amendment to the world council in advance of a world council meeting.
4. The world council would consider the proposal and potentially pass it to the technical committee for consideration.
5. If the world council feels the proposal is worth adopting, it will be passed to ISAF for approval because the F18 is an ISAF international class
6. If ISAF approves the rule change it will go to the F18 world council for final ratification.
7. Amendments are also placed on one year's notice before before adopted

Someone might correct this process, but that is what I get from the International Class rules and being at the World Council meeting in Long Beach.


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: Rules Changes [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #259912
05/30/13 08:00 AM
05/30/13 08:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
would stronger boards cause more damage to the board-trunks and hull?


Jay

Re: Rules Changes [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #259913
05/30/13 08:03 AM
05/30/13 08:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Jeff.Dusek
Pretty sure the process would go something like this:
1. Draft you rule proposal and submit to the US Class Association.
2. The US Class would consider whether to pass the proposed amendment on to the world council.
3. The US Class President would submit the proposed amendment to the world council in advance of a world council meeting.
4. The world council would consider the proposal and potentially pass it to the technical committee for consideration.
5. If the world council feels the proposal is worth adopting, it will be passed to ISAF for approval because the F18 is an ISAF international class
6. If ISAF approves the rule change it will go to the F18 world council for final ratification.
7. Amendments are also placed on one year's notice before before adopted

Someone might correct this process, but that is what I get from the International Class rules and being at the World Council meeting in Long Beach.


+1


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
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Re: Rules Changes [Re: samc99us] #259914
05/30/13 08:46 AM
05/30/13 08:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline OP
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samc99us  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
Thanks Jeff.

@Jay, the proposal I am suggesting doesn't increase strength, actually may decrease it (carbon > kevlar). Furthermore, carbon and kevlar don't like bonding together so done incorrectly you would have a weaker laminate in the TE. Done properly you would have a tougher TE, when you whacked it instead of carbon just flaking off the kevlar would hold everything together, letting you apply epoxy and re-gain the shape of the original with minor loss in strength.

Your trunks may see more where but I doubt it, they already get beat up right at the bottom.


Scorpion F18
Re: Rules Changes [Re: samc99us] #259963
06/02/13 03:32 PM
06/02/13 03:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172
Anacortes
Sloansailing Offline
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Sloansailing  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172
Anacortes
Have you ever repaired Kevlar? Its a pain in the butt, always fuzzes up when you sand it.


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