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Line review #262292
08/09/13 10:28 PM
08/09/13 10:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
Mike Fahle Offline OP
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Mike Fahle  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
This is from the Scuttlebutt daily sailing e-newsletter:

Line Review: Dyneema Blended Single Braids

By Matthew Fafoutis, Annapolis Performance Sailing

As the category title would indicate, all of these lines are Dyneema blended single braids. Constructionally none of these lines have covers (as would be expected from double braids). They are all a mix of Dyneema and another fiber, be it the most popular polyester, nylon or Cordura. They’re offered in a variety of sizes between 1/8” and ½” diameter. All of these lines are malleable, easy to handle, 12-strand (or similar), low water absorption and low stretch.

So what are they used for? Dyneema Blended single braids are made for hand-adjusted sheets (mainsheet, jib sheet, spin sheet) and various control lines for dinghies and keelboats.

This is probably also a good time to mention that although the manufacturers might say you can use their Dyneema blended single braid in a winched application, I personally would discourage doing that. I think you would be better served using a double braid with a polyester cover, but we’ll have to talk about that another day.

How do they all compare? All lines are soft and easy to handle. By feel: The Ph.D is the fuzziest. The DPX and Racing Sheet are the smoothest. The Swiftcord is the nubbiest. Salsa, Swiftcord and Ph.D all have a fairly loose weave. This means they’ll all shrink a little in diameter as the line loads up. Strength-wise the DPX is the strongest in terms of tensile strength but is also among the heaviest options. Second strongest is Ph.D. Swiftcord is the lightest off the spool followed by the Ph.D and Racing Sheet.

Because of their 12 strand construction all of these lines will ‘shrink’ a little when they are put under load. This means they’ll all shrink a little in diameter as the line loads up. This is also to blame for why these lines might flatten out when they’re cleated in the same spot over time.

You probably would see this most often in mainsheet applications where you’re cleating it in the same approximate range all the time. The easiest solution to this problem is just to end-for-end the sheet so you are just cleating the sheet in different location.

Long story short: If you’re looking for a hand-adjusted, non-winched sheet or control line for any size boat this is the go to category. Great for mainsheets on boats up to 35’, dinghy and small keelboat jib sheets and spin sheets and for all manner of control lines and purchase systems.

Here is the link for the video: http://blog.apsltd.com/2013/08/line-review-dyneema-blended-single.html


-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Line review [Re: Mike Fahle] #262380
08/12/13 09:18 PM
08/12/13 09:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
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davefarmer  Offline
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Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
Thanks Mike!


Re: Line review [Re: Mike Fahle] #262394
08/13/13 09:03 AM
08/13/13 09:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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samc99us  Offline
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Solomon's Island, MD
Few comments:

1) Not that great as a mainsheet in boats with 8:1 or greater purchase systems. Too much friction to smoothly let the line out in lighter airs at the diameter required for the loads and hand holding. Tapered mainsheets are worth every penny

2) They do slip in the cleats when used as a halyard. I have added a polyester cover to my spinnaker halyard to eliminate this. Others are using a double cleat with success.

3) Be careful using salsa line as a jib sheet. It in particular doesn't have enough mass to easily be flicked from the cleat.

4) FSE Robline Racing Sheet works great as a spinnaker sheet!


Scorpion F18
Re: Line review [Re: Mike Fahle] #262396
08/13/13 09:14 AM
08/13/13 09:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
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Portland, Maine
Sometimes double cleating doesn't work either - fyi.

Don't ask me how I know.

Re: Line review [Re: samc99us] #262401
08/13/13 11:48 AM
08/13/13 11:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by samc99us
Few comments:

1) Not that great as a mainsheet in boats with 8:1 or greater purchase systems. Too much friction to smoothly let the line out in lighter airs at the diameter required for the loads and hand holding. Tapered mainsheets are worth every penny

2) They do slip in the cleats when used as a halyard. I have added a polyester cover to my spinnaker halyard to eliminate this. Others are using a double cleat with success.

3) Be careful using salsa line as a jib sheet. It in particular doesn't have enough mass to easily be flicked from the cleat.

4) FSE Robline Racing Sheet works great as a spinnaker sheet!


Those hybrid lines are terrible for spinnaker halyards with regards to cleating. I won't use them anymore. You just can't beat the old Marlow pre-stretch poly line, stripped of it's core, and re-cored with 1/8" amsteel....although, typing this, I just think I figured out why I'm having so much trouble with burn holes in my spinnakers.


Jake Kohl
Re: Line review [Re: Mike Fahle] #262432
08/14/13 04:43 PM
08/14/13 04:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
old hand
samc99us  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
Jake,

I assume you are referring to this Marlow line? http://www.apsltd.com/c-1500-super-pre-stretch-marlow.aspx

If you're re-coring, just do both ends with the Marlow in the middle, so mostly amsteel is touching the spinnaker and no more burn holes. I know 2 splices instead of one. I think I could have gotten away with the FSE Robline Racing sheet as a cleat point if I buried the tail of the amsteel further so the cleat was on racing sheet+amsteel. That is what I will try next once this halyard wears out. Currently it's doing well with a polyester cover over the racing sheet in the cleat area.

Last edited by samc99us; 08/14/13 04:43 PM.

Scorpion F18
Re: Line review [Re: samc99us] #262443
08/14/13 06:46 PM
08/14/13 06:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by samc99us
Jake,

I assume you are referring to this Marlow line? http://www.apsltd.com/c-1500-super-pre-stretch-marlow.aspx

If you're re-coring, just do both ends with the Marlow in the middle, so mostly amsteel is touching the spinnaker and no more burn holes. I know 2 splices instead of one. I think I could have gotten away with the FSE Robline Racing sheet as a cleat point if I buried the tail of the amsteel further so the cleat was on racing sheet+amsteel. That is what I will try next once this halyard wears out. Currently it's doing well with a polyester cover over the racing sheet in the cleat area.


yes, that's the super pre-stretch. It holds in cam cleats and v-jam cleats better than anything ever made.

I had a robline halyard with amsteel in the center where it cleats (carried out to the head of the kite). It was not dependable in the cleat.

You can only expose the amsteel for about two feet on the dousing end of the line unless you want to pull on amsteel for dousing. The outer line needs to pretty much end at the spinnaker snuff points if you want something grippy to handle all the way through the snuff.


Jake Kohl
Re: Line review [Re: Mike Fahle] #262455
08/15/13 07:26 AM
08/15/13 07:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
old hand
samc99us  Offline
old hand
S

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
Jake,

Yes I end up pulling on Amsteel during the douse. Tripp and Mike's setup is nigh identical. Your crews hands may hurt more than usual but a nice "STFU and douse that spinnaker" seems to keep me motivated to keep pulling.


Scorpion F18
Re: Line review [Re: Jake] #262456
08/15/13 08:22 AM
08/15/13 08:22 AM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M



I have used 4mm and currently use 5mm robline for my spin halyard. I have no slippage issues in my spinlock... however i am not racing / pushing my spin with crew hanging over the side...
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by samc99us
Jake,

I assume you are referring to this Marlow line? http://www.apsltd.com/c-1500-super-pre-stretch-marlow.aspx

If you're re-coring, just do both ends with the Marlow in the middle, so mostly amsteel is touching the spinnaker and no more burn holes. I know 2 splices instead of one. I think I could have gotten away with the FSE Robline Racing sheet as a cleat point if I buried the tail of the amsteel further so the cleat was on racing sheet+amsteel. That is what I will try next once this halyard wears out. Currently it's doing well with a polyester cover over the racing sheet in the cleat area.


yes, that's the super pre-stretch. It holds in cam cleats and v-jam cleats better than anything ever made.

I had a robline halyard with amsteel in the center where it cleats (carried out to the head of the kite). It was not dependable in the cleat.

You can only expose the amsteel for about two feet on the dousing end of the line unless you want to pull on amsteel for dousing. The outer line needs to pretty much end at the spinnaker snuff points if you want something grippy to handle all the way through the snuff.

Re: Line review [Re: ] #262459
08/15/13 08:38 AM
08/15/13 08:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by MN3
I have used 4mm and currently use 5mm robline for my spin halyard. I have no slippage issues in my spinlock... however i am not racing / pushing my spin with crew hanging over the side...


The spinlock probably is the difference. However, I've blown up several spinlocks and don't trust them on the spinnaker halyard anymore. Reaching with the kite just puts so much strain on the halyard. I use the Harken cam cleat on a swivel mount.


Jake Kohl

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