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Spinnaker dousing bag #263102
09/02/13 06:52 PM
09/02/13 06:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
C
Chris Ross Offline OP
stranger
Chris Ross  Offline OP
stranger
C

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 12

Hello all,
I have been racing monohulls for years, and I've decided to start racing catamarans. I bought Meade Gougeon's G32, Janet C, and have been racing it Single handed at our Yacht Club. I want to set up a dousing bag on the sprit like a beach cat,
[Linked Image]

Any suggestions as to how to go about setting a system like that up on Janet C?

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Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: Chris Ross] #263113
09/03/13 06:04 AM
09/03/13 06:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Hey Chris, welcome to the Dark Side!

Many of us started racing in mono's and made the same conversion to multi's, so you are in good company.

Do you want the snuffer bag to be like most of our racing cats, a sock type, along the inboard end of the pole, or do you just want a simple sack on the deck, like a monohull?

Either way, it will work a lot better if you add a belly button type patch(s) and retrieval line to your spinnaker.

What we all use is the sock on the pole, with a very long spinnaker halyard, the tail of which is routed down the mast (from the mast top spin. halyard block) through a cleat, (which holds the spin up) down through the tramp (or through the solid deck in your case?) and then it goes forward, under the tramp (deck) into the small end of the tapered spin. sock along the pole, and out the mouth of the sock, up to the belly button patch(s) on the spin itself.

I'm sure some of the guys here can post a picture of their setup, which is worth far more than 1000 words on my part. It sounds a lot worse than it really is to rig up. But once you see it you'll see how simple it really is.

I'll try to find a good clip on You Tube that will show how it works. The system works great for single handing, because you never have to leave the **** to launch/retrieve the kite. Here's a clip where you can see the three patches on the spinns. You tie the halyard tail to the top patch, after passing through the two lower patches which are just guide loops to keep the halyard in place and to scrunch up the spinny as you pull it down, so a 30' long spin will fit into a 6' long sock. You can see the socks on the poles, with the wide mouth at mid pole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkZGDe0egVI

Great looking boat, I know you'll have fun passing by all your monohull buddies when the wind picks up!


Blade F16
#777
Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: Chris Ross] #263119
09/03/13 09:43 AM
09/03/13 09:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
C
Chris Ross Offline OP
stranger
Chris Ross  Offline OP
stranger
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Thanks Tim!
It looks like my spinnaker does have the retrieval line eyes, so now it's a matter if getting/making the ring and bag to mount to the pole. The chute luff length is 35' and the foot length is 26'. How long should the bag be? The pole is 8.5' long,

I have had a couple of "sail by" moments with the monos, and it was nice. Meade and Jan sailed these boats very well, and the PHRF rating of 12 reflects that.. I haven't figured out how to sail it to that rating yet, but I'm having a blast figuring it out!

Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: Chris Ross] #263120
09/03/13 10:16 AM
09/03/13 10:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Chris Ross
Thanks Tim!
It looks like my spinnaker does have the retrieval line eyes, so now it's a matter if getting/making the ring and bag to mount to the pole. The chute luff length is 35' and the foot length is 26'. How long should the bag be? The pole is 8.5' long,

I have had a couple of "sail by" moments with the monos, and it was nice. Meade and Jan sailed these boats very well, and the PHRF rating of 12 reflects that.. I haven't figured out how to sail it to that rating yet, but I'm having a blast figuring it out!


You will need to measure the longest distance from a snuffer point to one corner of the sail to determine the bag length. The snuffer points will bunch the sail up between them but the corners will extend out from the bunch.


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: Chris Ross] #263127
09/03/13 12:02 PM
09/03/13 12:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
The retrieval line (halyard tail) will run through the bottom patch first, up to the mid patch (if you have 3) then tie off to the top patch. When you snuff it, the top patch will be pulled down to the other two, and all 3 will go into the mouth of the snuffer sock first, then pull in the tack, head and clew of the spinnaker last.

So you need to measure how far it is from the top patch to the head, and from the bottom patch to the clew and tack, to see how long of a sock you'll need.

And remember, you can run the tail end of the sock under your tramp (deck), so it can be pretty long, as long as you have a way to attach it to the underside of the tramp.

The tail of the halyard will come out the back of the sock, then run back a little further, then up through a hole in your tramp/deck, and back forward to a block near the base of the mast, and then up the mast to the spinnaker head/block.

It's one big continuous loop, with some slack on the deck, so your retrieval line isn't too tight on your spin when you are running deep and have it sheeted way out.

When it's time to douse it, you simple dump the halyard out of the cleat and pull like mad on the tail, where it comes up from below your tramp, and that will pull the patches down and into the sock, with the clew, tack and head coming in last.

You will also have to decide how you want to run your tack line. There are two schools of thought on how to rig that.

Some boats are rigged with a separate tack line, others will put a small harken block at the end of their tack line and run the spin halyard thorough that, so as the halyard comes up and tight, it pulls the tack line out, and vice/verse when you snuff it.

With a big spinnaker like yours, I would run a separate tack line, otherwise I think the load would be too much to both raise the spin and pull the tack out at the same time. With a separate tack line, you'll want to pull it out first, and then quickly pull the halyard up. On the snuff, you get 80% of the spin in the sock first, then release the tack line and finish the snuff.

That will keep your spinny from becoming a sea anchor if you aren't fast enough on the snuff line.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: Timbo] #263128
09/03/13 12:07 PM
09/03/13 12:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Timbo
The retrieval line (halyard tail) will run through the bottom patch first, up to the mid patch (if you have 3) then tie off to the top patch. When you snuff it, the top patch will be pulled down to the other two, and all 3 will go into the mouth of the snuffer sock first, then pull in the tack, head and clew of the spinnaker last.

So you need to measure how far it is from the top patch to each corner of the spin, to see how long of a sock you'll need. And remember, you can run the tail end of the sock under your tramp (deck), so it can be pretty long, as long as you have a way to attach it to the underside of the tramp.

The tail of the halyard will come out the back of the sock, then run back a little further, then up through a hole in your tramp/deck, and back forward to a block near the base of the mast, and then up the mast to the spinnaker head/block.

It's one big continuous loop, with some slack on the deck, so your retrieval line isn't too tight on your spin when you are running deep and have it sheeted way out.

When it's time to douse it, you simple dump the halyard out of the cleat and pull like mad on the tail, where it comes up from below your tramp, and that will pull the patches down and into the sock, with the clew, tack and head coming in last.

You will also have to decide how you want to run your tack line. There are two schools of thought on how to rig that.

Some boats are rigged with a separate tack line, others will put a small harken block at the end of their tack line and run the spin halyard thorough that, so as the halyard comes up and tight, it pulls the tack line out, and vice/verse when you snuff it.

With a big spinnaker like yours, I would run a separate tack line, otherwise I think the load would be too much to both raise the spin and pull the tack out at the same time. With a separate tack line, you'll want to pull it out first, and then quickly pull the halyard up. On the snuff, you get 80% of the spin in the sock first, then release the tack line and finish the snuff.

That will keep your spinny from becoming a sea anchor if you aren't fast enough on the snuff line.


Or run an end-pole snuffer and leave the tack attached.


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: Chris Ross] #263140
09/03/13 03:06 PM
09/03/13 03:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Or he might be able to pick up an old I20 end pole unit; pole, hoop and sock, and just use that. Go to Google Images and put in "Inter 20 end pole snuffer" and you'll see what that looks like.

There is also a company called SNU (anyone got a link?) who is making custom mid pole snuffers and socks, so you might look there for the parts you need.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: Chris Ross] #263163
09/03/13 10:09 PM
09/03/13 10:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
old hand
davefarmer  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
There may be a size limit above which this style of snuffing will not work well. The larger the spin, the greater the surface area that you're dragging across the mouth of the snuffer ring, and friction increases accordingly, at some point being greater than a unassisted crew can pull in quickly. And if you can't get it snuffed quickly, it's gonna end up in the drink. And with a big boat and a lot of sail area, that could be dangerous.
That said, we had Dennis at gobarefoot.com build us a custom SNU snuffer for the 35 sq mtr chute on our ARC22, and it works very well. We have a separate tack line, and keep the spin well lubed. I'd really recommend the SNU, or other manufactured system, over a do it yourself attempt on this scale. The sailcloth is put under great stress getting pulled in and out of the mouth of the snuffer, and the connection between the bag and the ring/snuffer mouth is a critical design element in a successful system.
Good luck, keep us informed of your results, and adventures!

Dave

PM me if you wish, I have a bunch of pics of our set up.

Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: Timbo] #263168
09/04/13 04:49 AM
09/04/13 04:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 858
Victoria Australia
Pirate Offline
old hand
Pirate  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 858
Victoria Australia
Originally Posted by Timbo
..... There is also a company called SNU (anyone got a link?) who is making custom mid pole snuffers and socks .....


http://www.gobarefootstudio.com/snu_08.html

vid @....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqhOb1cA-z8


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: Pirate] #263181
09/04/13 07:35 AM
09/04/13 07:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
what about that sock thing that sits up on the halyard and you just pull it down over the spin before dousing?

Maybe too much drag up top?


Jay

Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: waterbug_wpb] #263182
09/04/13 07:45 AM
09/04/13 07:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
what about that sock thing that sits up on the halyard and you just pull it down over the spin before dousing?

Maybe too much drag up top?


I think you still need a foredeck for that to work.


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: Jake] #263206
09/04/13 04:03 PM
09/04/13 04:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
possibly, although a small line through a block at the tack? So then you'd have the "douse" line going up the luff rather than up the middle of the spin?

But it does sound a little more cumbersome than a snuffer bag..


Jay

Re: Spinnaker dousing bag [Re: waterbug_wpb] #263299
09/06/13 06:22 PM
09/06/13 06:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
C
Chris Ross Offline OP
stranger
Chris Ross  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
I had a spinnaker sock for the chute on my Laser 28. I did the solo challenge on the boat (36 hours straight of racing!) And the sock caused more problems than it solved.

I think I'll mock up some snuffers and test them before buying one. The G32 chute is about 650 square feet, so there will be some friction.


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