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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Timbo] #263172
09/04/13 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Timbo
...

Yet they wonder why nobody watches this crap....


And that's why the penalty. It's impacted the image of the event. I might argue that the gigantic public proclamations the competitors made and the trial itself had more to do with tarnishing the image of the event but it is hard to argue that the modifications made weren't the reason all of this happened to begin with.

I'm a bit undecided on this whole thing...the mods really weren't THAT big of a deal - but why in the hell would you do something like that? The event really didn't matter in the larger scheme of things. I guess there are some people that just aren't happy with being really good at what they do. That competitive nature erodes their better judgement.


Jake Kohl
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263174
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Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263175
09/04/13 08:18 AM
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Yeah - totally wrecking my confidence here.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263176
09/04/13 08:26 AM
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Well at least we'll get to watch some good racing with the kids on the 45's.

I'm guessing ETNZ is going to romp over Oracle about the same way they did with Prada, unless the break something...again.


Blade F16
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Timbo] #263177
09/04/13 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Timbo
This is getting beyond "Stupid"!

They should fine LE a bazillion dollars for what ever "improved performance" 5lbs. and 7mm makes to a 45' cat, but what has anything done to boats in the 45' regatta, months ago, got to do with the America's Cup Regatta, btw, held in completely different boats??

And have any of these -tools- measured the two AC 72 boats prior to the start of the AC regatta?

Or are they (again) going to wait until it's over?

Yet they wonder why nobody watches this crap....


Reality TV at it's best! I think everyone will watching Saturday. After that?


Have Fun
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: catman] #263178
09/04/13 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by catman
Originally Posted by Timbo
This is getting beyond "Stupid"!

They should fine LE a bazillion dollars for what ever "improved performance" 5lbs. and 7mm makes to a 45' cat, but what has anything done to boats in the 45' regatta, months ago, got to do with the America's Cup Regatta, btw, held in completely different boats??

And have any of these -tools- measured the two AC 72 boats prior to the start of the AC regatta?

Or are they (again) going to wait until it's over?

Yet they wonder why nobody watches this crap....



Reality TV at it's best! I think everyone will watching Saturday. After that?



Well, I'll be there for three days of racing. Here's hoping that its either a blowout in Oracle's favor or its close racing.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Jake] #263179
09/04/13 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jake
.the mods really weren't THAT big of a deal


Cheating is cheating. If it wasn't that big of a deal, they shouldn't have done it in the first place.

I agree that the guillotine might be a little harsh, but it does make you wonder what else is going on that no one has caught yet...

I love the people on TV saying that they "were sorry they did..." whatever. Bulls**t: you're sorry you got CAUGHT doing whatever.

Look, we all should understand there is no such thing as a fair fight, even with SMOD. Those that feel their skills need help will find ways to bend rules to their favor (until they get called out on it). With this much $$ in the AC game, it's bound to happen. And this happens in pretty much every sport you can think of.... F1, NASCAR, Baseball, Cricket, and even (dare I say it) Flip Cup.

I suspect the judges will be paying a little closer attention to the boats (and the cheaters - if there are any - will find new ways to hide stuff).

Who knows, this penalty on OTUSA might actually put a little drama back into the Cup series. Can they overcome this penalty, or will ENTZ ride all over them?

I like OTUSA and ENTZ about equally (the rabid fans of either, not so much) and would love to see a close fought series going down to the wire.

There are some truly awesome sailors, designers, and composite folk on those teams and it's a pleasure to follow their progress.


Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263184
09/04/13 09:15 AM
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I guess I don't really see the penalty as having much affect. I'd be very surprised if it comes down to the last race as being the deciding race. Chances are it will be pretty much a blowout with one team taking almost all the races. I think Oracle is better prepared than either Luna Rossa, or Artemis, and I like to think that they've got a chance, but that's all speculation until they actually line up against Emirates.


I'm boatless.
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263185
09/04/13 09:40 AM
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I agree, the 2 races probably is not going to make a real difference. I believe there will be a real difference between the teams and the results will heavily favor one team.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263186
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263187
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Underdogs? Really? These people should just be embarrassed. They are the defenders, and have Uncle Larry's war chest. To lose to a one-boat, shoestring-budget team will be completely reprehensible. To have cheated along the way virtually assures that LE's name will forever be tarnished in AC history. To have the gall to appeal to the masses as underdogs is disgusting.

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: brucat] #263188
09/04/13 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by brucat
Underdogs? Really? These people should just be embarrassed. They are the defenders, and have Uncle Larry's war chest. To lose to a one-boat, shoestring-budget team will be completely reprehensible. To have cheated along the way virtually assures that LE's name will forever be tarnished in AC history. To have the gall to appeal to the masses as underdogs is disgusting.

Mike


Personally, I don't think this cheating went to any high level...if it did, the work would have been much more refined and it would have been done a whole lot better. Sportsmanship aside, even if it had gone to some higher level for someone that didn't care about cheating, SOMEONE would have weighed the risk to benefit ratio and make a quick and easy determination that the modification isn't worth the risk. At the very least, the evidence would not have been left after they turned the boat over to the event authority so it could be accidentally discovered by the event staff who are assembling the boats. I'm just sayin'.

I think the penalty was harsh but in light of personnel intentionally lying to a jury, they should be fried. I have a real beef with that.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263189
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Are there pictures published of the modifications?

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: bacho] #263190
09/04/13 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bacho
Are there pictures published of the modifications?

Yes, look back to my previous posts (re: notices)


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263191
09/04/13 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by P.M.
Originally Posted by bacho
Are there pictures published of the modifications?

Yes, look back to my previous posts (re: notices)


page 9 of this document has a picture:

http://noticeboard.americascup.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/JN117.pdf


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263192
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: brucat] #263195
09/04/13 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by brucat
Underdogs? Really? These people should just be embarrassed. They are the defenders, and have Uncle Larry's war chest. To lose to a one-boat, shoestring-budget team will be completely reprehensible. To have cheated along the way virtually assures that LE's name will forever be tarnished in AC history. To have the gall to appeal to the masses as underdogs is disgusting.

Mike


I'm not sure ETNZ is that much of a shoestring budget team. They built 2 boats, and brought in one of, if not the best multi-hull design team in the world. Hint hint, they paid for the team that wrote the AC72 rule to design their boat and resulted in the first fully foiling AC72.

No, they can't afford, or decided against hiring a second sailing team to run their second boat around the course. In many ways I think this was a prudent decision. Boat #1 can be used for spares to keep boat #2 up and running on short order, and the team can be fully committed to boat #2. Oracle has stated on multiple occasions it's very exhaustive keeping a 2 boat program on the water.

I don't think Oracle are that handicapped going into this, they've obviously mixed their sailing team up in the past and they can do it again. Loosing their main wing trimmer was a blow, but their backup has plenty of AC72 experience under his belt.

I do think the decision was a bit harsh, for a relatively minor measurement violation but if you notice the guys that cooperated with the Jury got off fairly scotch free and those that didn't or were otherwise found responsible for the whole mess got the shaft. Still, to think the helmsman on all 3 boats were unaware is a bit of b.s, though perhaps Ben Ainslie wasn't notified considering it was a chartered ride.


Scorpion F18
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263197
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Originally Posted by P.M.


Jimmy "I'm here to focus on the sailing...we're here to go racing, this is actually a sailboat race"

Oh, that's what this? A sailboat race? NOW I get it.


Scorpion F18
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263198
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Final Day of the RBYAC live now on ESPN3


Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263200
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