I have been thinking about the discuss we have had regarding junior sailors ages 12 -16 (not youth ages 17 –21) and the cat to use. One DANGER with using the Wave as a junior boat is the fact that the Wave is actually a developmental class type boat. I realize it is not a Hobie class but if you have ever wondered why Hobie USA is resistant to developing the Wave, as another Hobie class here is the scope, THE HOBIE WAVE WILL DEVELOP WITH TIME (this includes the Getaway)! That is to say the Wave will be improved as plastics improve, and as other things improve. It they want to change the hull shape they will do so, if they want to change sail shape they will do so, if plastics get lighter they will make the boat lighter, and so on. This of course makes sense because this boat was designed for resort and recreational sailing and Hobie wants to keep their rec./resort boat up to par and ahead of the competition. So due to this I think the Wave is out as a junior boat and the H14 is once again our option for a junior cat, maybe.
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<br>Here is another idea what about using different sail sizes on the H16, such as the easy rig for sailors’ ages 12 – 16. We are already developing a Turbo Kit for the H16 so why not an Easy Rig Kit. As for sailors ages 6 – 10 I really think the Sabot (my choice for affordability), Opti (once again too expensive new or used), or Access Dinghy for children with disAbilities (or without disAbilities) are our best bet. The little Sabot or dinghy like monohulls are just to affordable and simple for the kids to sail as compared in trying to develop a small 8 to 12 cat.
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<br>So what do you all think and has anyone sailed a H16 with an Easy Rig set-up?<br><br>

Come on you all we need to make a discussion is it the Wava or Hobie 14? I know I am not the authority on this topic so any opinions on this topic would be appreciated. By next summer we will either buy four Wave’s or four H14’s for our program and it would be nice to be going the same direction as other sailing programs regarding junior sailing.<br><br>

if the only choice is the wave or the 14 I'd pick the 14. although both boats are great, the wave is fairly docile, while the 14 is similar to the 16 especially for a lightweight crew. Remember these kids are cat sailors, they like going fast and having some fun and excitement, if they wanted to go slow they wouldn't sail a cat. Not that the 14 is all that fast but it feels fast and that will keep kids sailing when they get older.<br><br>

At the Wave Nationals for the past three years we have already had a Youth Nationals that sail at the same time with the Opens -- all boats start and race for the Open, but are broken down into Youth, Master, Womens as well.
<br>I really seriously doubt that the 14 will ever have a Youth Nationals. At this point even the Open 14 Nationals is pretty sparsely attended.
<br>This is not a discussion of which is the best boat, rather is it the best boat for kids.
<br>The thought that Hobie will make the Wave lighter or different is not in the near future, that is for sure -- once you tool up to make a plastic boat, you stick with it for years and years.
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<br>On the agenda at the Wave Nationals meeting will be the idea of supporting a Wave Youth Class Design. I really think this could be a great learning boat for kids.
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<br>Nothing written in stone here -- just laying out some ideas! OK?
<br>Rick<br><br>Rick White
<br>Catamaran Sailor Magazine
<br>email: rick@catsailor.com

Rick I know you have sailed for many years and I am wondering what your experience has been regarding the reactions of youth or junior level sailors sailing the H14 or Wave. Some have expressed that kids will stick with cat sailing if they sailed the H14 over the Wave due to the thrill factor, what do you think of this, along with kids reactions to both designs.
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<br>Also I must add I have been talking to H14 sailors in Germany and Brazil to name a few and they have expressed that the Wave will never be an international junior cat as it is predominately a US boat, even though a few have been exported. In Brazil the H14 is being built and I know they are trying to get youth sailing going down there and of course they are promoting the H16 as a youth cat.
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<br>Maybe I am looking more at the international level and you are looking at the national level. I know our kids do not do very well in international youth regattas (on the H16) and so I am looking at what will help our kids in International sailing, but then again the real point is to just get them sailing. I know some have told me “but most kids will not racing internationally” and all I can say is that the way we want to continue to go?
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<br>So we have maybe the US promoting the Wave as a youth boat maybe, Europe is promoting the Dragon and H14 (a little battle going on there), and South America and South Africa promoting the H14, and Australia I am not sure even though they produce the H14. Seems to me we all need to come together (if that is possible) and decide on using a boat for the junior level events, once again I am not talking about youth cat because it’s the H16. The problem with the Wave is it is not raced in South American and many other continents (even so we could get it going), the Dragon is to darn expensive for us sailing families with a budget and more than one kid, and H14 is well I don’t know of a real disadvantage even though I am sure you all could come up with some – once again I can get new H14’s shipped to North American either from Brazil or Europe so new boats are available.
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<br>I am not trying to conflict with what you say but I think we all need to come together to determine what direction we need to go and resolve some of these issues. I know for sailors ages 6 – 10 in our area we are using the Sabot or Access Dinghy 2.3. But from the ages of 11 – 16 we need to come down to the choice of a Wave or H14, and I think if we are going to support the Wave we need to figure out if countries like Brazil or South Africa, Germany, etc. are going to fallow suit, so we need to include them. Once again maybe we only want to do this on a national level but somehow I think that would be near sighted approach, maybe.
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<br>I am just talking this out and I am not saying let’s just choose the H14 as that is not my choice. Rick you could post a survey on your web site but I think we really need to send surveys to other countries and organizations and see what happens. You may be way ahead of me on this (which I am sure is the case) so lets keep this effort going, I know my kids are fast approaching the junior level age group and I sure would like to hook them up with correct sailing group or effort, along with the other kids in my area.
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<br>Wouldn’t it be great if we could make joining a sailing junior or youth sailing club/group as easy as signing up for a soccer team and as affordable. I have always said if we could do this then we would be getting somewhere. Cost is such a big factor in preventing kids from getting into sailing! That is one of the things I like about the Sabot (over the Opti) (or Access Dinghy 2.3 for the disAbled) is its so affordable and easy to find used, and to get the very young into sailing. My view and this is only my view is having the Sabot as a pre-junior sailboat, having some junior level cat (Wave or H14) as a junior boat, and then the H16 (H16 Trapseat for the disAbled) as the youth boat would be a great progression for sailors. So after their youth years they could stay with the active H16 class and attend the worlds, or move onto the formula 18, Olympic Tornado, etc. multihull sailing. These are all ideas and may be greatly flawed.<br><br>

I don't have time to type a long response right now but I just saw you metion the Dragon and international racing.
<br>I wish we could get a few Dragons here in the U.S. so some kids could practice on them. I have considered going to the hobie 16 worlds and trying to race the dragon in a youth class but I have never sailed a boat like it when the kids racing it there have tons of experience on that boat. There was not one U.S. youth team racing the dragon at that event as far bak as I can remember. If I had access to one of those boats to practice on I would go to the worlds. I am not going to spend the money to get there and sail a boat I have never even seen before, this would not even give me a chance. I am sure all the other youths feel the same way. I think we need a boat like the dragon here in the U.S.
<br>Maybe we just have to get Hobie to get some Dragons over here and give them or sell them to clubs and fleets with a lot of international youth racer potentia or even local youth racer potential.
<br>-Todd
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<br>P.S.
<br>Rick it would be interesting to maybe add something like a dragon class to the wave nationals or another national regatta.<br><br>

You all forgot to mention the Mystere Tyka (4.3) that is sloop rigged and comes equiped with a Snuffer Spinnaker. There were 26 sold in the Northern Ohio and several of them showed up at Bay Week in Put-in-Bay, Ohio this past August. They were pretty and looked really nice. Some problems, however -- extremely stiff, unbendy mast, and a rudder system that leaves a bit to desire (not unlike many other classes in the world, including Hobie).
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<br>We have been thinking of trying a Youth Championship the weekend before the Wave Nationals (which would be the weekend following Thanksgiving).
<br>So, would it be fair to make it an open class regatta? Don't know, myself!
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<br>My only problem with the H14 is availability. In all the racing in Florida, the most we see in a Hobie Fleet at big regattas is one or two. And there do not seem to be any even available. I haven't really checked, but I believe you would probably have to special order one from Hobie. In other words, in my neck of the woods, "... they ain't any 'round" That applies to Florida and Ohio mainly, but they don't seem to be jumping around like fleas anywhere else around the country either (Looking at the results pages I never see H14 Fleets reported)
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<br>Don't remember if told you but with my prototype "Yute" boat (as Rush Limbaugh would say) with the pole and Hooter, I raced in the Sandusky to Put-in-Bay Steeplechase (22-mile Long Distance race in Lake Erie). Conditions: Light air, lots of boat chop, upwind all the way, and my weight was just over 200 lbs (probably about the weight of two youth sailors -- maybe could be less) and for 1/3 of the race I stayed ahead of 5 Hobie 16s. I was able to point higher and go at similar speeds.
<br>Then I took a flyer trying to win the thing overall and lost out big time -- pilot error. Also, I noted that the boat was not pointing as well. It was then I noticed the bows bending inward (good thing these boats are plastic -- glass would have broken) so just nursed the boat the rest of the way. After taking off the Hooter rig to ready for the North Americans, the bows went back to normal. We have a remedy for that problem.
<br>We hope to have the final prototype finished for presentation at the Wave Nationals.
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<br>OK, now this boat seemed to perform with H16s in light air, and we all know that the Wave is a real hoot to sail in heavy air. And we all know that they are very, very readily available, both new and used.
<br>Internationally, most of the boats sold by the dealers in Florida are sent overseas -- many to the islands and S. America. Perhaps at this point the majority of the class are in the U.S., but with a boat that is popped out of a machine like garbage cans (No disrepectful or negative comments needed, Please!) they can certainly infiltrate the International market. And the class, I feel pretty certain, will do all it can to promote its International presence.
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<br>Again, this is discussion only and there is no reason why dissenting parties cannot pursue whichever or whatever direction they wish.
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<br>God Bless America and sailing of any kind,
<br>Rick<br><br>Rick White
<br>Catamaran Sailor Magazine
<br>email: rick@catsailor.com

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