Announcements
New Discussions
Best spinnaker halyard line material?
by '81 Hobie 16 Lac Leman. 03/31/24 10:31 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 135 of 202 1 2 133 134 135 136 137 201 202
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: bacho] #264834
09/24/13 10:35 AM
09/24/13 10:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
old hand
samc99us  Offline
old hand
S

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
Size doesn't matter so much with foils once you're above a certain point.

Cavitation happens on the part of the foil that is most highly loaded and doesn't spread under steady-state conditions. You could ventilate the foil as a result of cavitation if the boats ride height changed dramatically.


Scorpion F18
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: bacho] #264836
09/24/13 10:59 AM
09/24/13 10:59 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
V
Ventucky Red Offline
veteran
Ventucky Red  Offline
veteran
V

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
Originally Posted by bacho
Airplane wings are designed to stall in particular areas first. I guess these foils are rather small for that.

If the horizontal surface cavitated, would the problem be limited to that area? Would it be possible for that to immediately ventilate the rest of the foil?


I don't know if it is a design thing or it is just the way it happens, but many aircraft wings will stall at the wing root first hence the areolons being outboard to still have authority to control the aircraft.


Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: brucat] #264837
09/24/13 11:07 AM
09/24/13 11:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by brucat
If the foil cavitates, won't the boat just slow down?


sorry,.. was just re-stating what was already said above...

Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 09/24/13 11:11 AM.

Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: bacho] #264838
09/24/13 11:19 AM
09/24/13 11:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by bacho
Airplane wings are designed to stall in particular areas first. I guess these foils are rather small for that.

If the horizontal surface cavitated, would the problem be limited to that area? Would it be possible for that to immediately ventilate the rest of the foil?


As Sam mentioned, the cavitation will start small on a small section of the foil where it is creating the most lift (vacuum). If speed continues to grow, the cavitation will spread. In this case, the cavitation will limit the lift of the foil and start to slow the boat down as it tries to maintain foiling (or the hull touches the water). It probably wouldn't be very dramatic.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Ventucky Red] #264839
09/24/13 11:20 AM
09/24/13 11:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
I was going to ask why the cavitation started where it did near the outer edge of the foil rather than the base where it attaches to the vertical surface.

would the rake angle of the leading edge have anything to do with that?

Would an inverse rake angle help or hurt? Let's assume nothing in the water would get hung up on it smile


Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264842
09/24/13 11:50 AM
09/24/13 11:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
old hand

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
I envision the boats flipping end over end, breaking into 100 pieces and at least one fireball. Much more exciting that way.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: waterbug_wpb] #264844
09/24/13 12:01 PM
09/24/13 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I was going to ask why the cavitation started where it did near the outer edge of the foil rather than the base where it attaches to the vertical surface.

would the rake angle of the leading edge have anything to do with that?

Would an inverse rake angle help or hurt? Let's assume nothing in the water would get hung up on it smile



A forward rake angle helps you with ventilation but not cavitation.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264849
09/24/13 01:03 PM
09/24/13 01:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Random thought but has anyone compared the relative conditioning of the two teams? We all know we have sex-breath McGee on ETNZ who clearly sounds like he's on mile 25 of a marathon by the last leg - but I have to say that the Oracle guys don't look nearly as spent when the race is over - at least in the later stages of the event.

You think that it might play a part in the seemingly sluggish maneuvering by ETNZ?

(The race has inspired me to go back to the gym FWIW)

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264850
09/24/13 01:20 PM
09/24/13 01:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
Race 17
1.6 knot flood current, 24.6 knot wind limit
race 18
1.1 knot flood, 24.1 knot wind limit

Big winds forecast today


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264851
09/24/13 01:20 PM
09/24/13 01:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264853
09/24/13 01:29 PM
09/24/13 01:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
He doesn't want to take any more chances that he won't be able to fulfil his dream/promise to return to monohulls? I'd be more impressed if he took the wheel.

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264854
09/24/13 01:34 PM
09/24/13 01:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Hey while we're waiting... let's start a top 10 list of things from this regatta that you can apply to every day life (since $100,000,000/boat technology will not readily trickle down to our level of the sport).

Here's one (inspired by the gym comment above):

If you're sitting in your office chair, and you lean to one side, and the sounds that come from the chair remind you of the groaning rigs of the AC72s, you might want to find your way back to the gym...

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264855
09/24/13 01:46 PM
09/24/13 01:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by P.M.
Race 17
1.6 knot flood current, 24.6 knot wind limit
race 18
1.1 knot flood, 24.1 knot wind limit

Big winds forecast today


I'm seeing a forecast of 16 kts out of the east at 2pm local.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: brucat] #264856
09/24/13 01:49 PM
09/24/13 01:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
Pooh-Bah
catman  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
Originally Posted by brucat
Hey while we're waiting... let's start a top 10 list of things from this regatta that you can apply to every day life (since $100,000,000/boat technology will not readily trickle down to our level of the sport).

Here's one (inspired by the gym comment above):

If you're sitting in your office chair, and you lean to one side, and the sounds that come from the chair remind you of the groaning rigs of the AC72s, you might want to find your way back to the gym...

Mike


You don't need the gym. A little silicone spray will fix that.


Have Fun
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Jake] #264857
09/24/13 02:10 PM
09/24/13 02:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by P.M.
Race 17
1.6 knot flood current, 24.6 knot wind limit
race 18
1.1 knot flood, 24.1 knot wind limit

Big winds forecast today


I'm seeing a forecast of 16 kts out of the east at 2pm local.

Out of the East? Are you ok Jake?


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264858
09/24/13 02:10 PM
09/24/13 02:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
Wind 260 at 20.7 kts, 22.5 kts peak


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264859
09/24/13 02:12 PM
09/24/13 02:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
That's awfully close to the limit...

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264860
09/24/13 02:13 PM
09/24/13 02:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Philip where are you pulling weather data from?

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: ThunderMuffin] #264861
09/24/13 02:15 PM
09/24/13 02:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by Undecided
We all know we have sex-breath McGee


finally! Thanks for that investigative journalism


Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: ThunderMuffin] #264862
09/24/13 02:19 PM
09/24/13 02:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
Originally Posted by Undecided
Philip where are you pulling weather data from?

It's the live chatter feed
http://live.virtualeye.tv/Chatter/chatter_100.html

TIM = Telemetry Interface Metadata

It's the source from the race committee. Wind comes from the Automated Wind monitor and reporter.


Philip
USA #1006
Page 135 of 202 1 2 133 134 135 136 137 201 202

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 633 guests, and 169 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,405
Posts267,056
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1