I was lucky enough to get a whole day with Robbie Daniel that I WON by purchasing a raffle ticket at a local race!

What a treat to have someone of that caliber tweaking your boat and sailing skills. (or lack of) I have always done reasonably well off the wind with my P19MX, but got chewed up going to weather. I had told Robbie that this was what I needed help with. Heck, Bob Curry and Randy Smyth seemed to be able to work to weather with their P19MXs. Yes, I didn't forget that they are BOB and Randy. Anyway, after a few trips to the beach to "adjust & tweak" we proceeded to check ourselves out against an I20 that was out that day. (I feel it is unfair to mention who they were). We were parked and slightly downwind when the I20 decided to drive over us. Robbie jumped out on the trap and set the jib while I helmed and sheeted the main. I then handed the mainsheet to Robbie. With his coaching with respect to my helmsmanship and his "playing a fiddle" with the main we pulled away from the I20 sailing a slightly lower course, but with some amazing boat speed. When we tacked over and crossed tacks with the I20, we were ahead. Robbie said "park it". When the I20 approached, we repeated what we had done before, with the same results.

So, what I got out of this was that "the boat" is very capable of being competitive. I just have to remember how to work the boat to weather. In addition to the many pointers I picked up that day, I found out why I couldn't go to weather well. I was (past tense) a footer who was too afraid that I may be pinching, and although I though I was oversheeting the main, I actually was not sheeting hard enough.

Just thought I'd share this with those of you that may have been in the same rut.

Thanks for listening.
Dave

So how do you know when you've sheeted enough main when sailing to weather?

Hi Jake,
Well, I found out in wind conditions beginning at around 12 knots (with my particular sail plan) I would have "difficulty" oversheeting the main. (190 sq. foot square top) I am a personal trainer and consider myself fairly strong. He attached some leach telltails and explained what to look for, in addition to how the main looked. Also, I was told to leave the wrinkles in the main when going to weather until getting overpowered while double trapped. Evidently I was applying the downhaul too soon.
Dave

I've been told that leech tell tales are worthless but never got a good explanation pro or con. I'm not trying to keep baiting you but I'm interested to hear more! What are you looking at with the leech tales?

Very cool!

Hi Jake,
I would "never" consider that you would bait me.
How about we let [color:"blue"] [/color] some of the sailors elaborate on those pros and cons? Should make an interesting thread.

Meanwhile, consider this....As you progress in sailing technology, there are many things that are learned and if they are not learned, the best thing to say is that something is useless. I could give you a long list of things that are taught during a seminar that before people were told about them, they had no clue. The level of sailing that the different classes are in, determines a lot of the common things that are done. The more technological testing that goes on in a class, the more that is learned. Unfortunately not a lot of technological testing goes on outside the Olympic Classes....it is just too darn expensive so as a result, many of the go fast secrets stay within the testing class. Or, with a seminar with someone like Robbie.
Dave

It’s interesting that you have been told that leech telltales are worthless.

When I sailed the 2002 Performance Nationals on Traverse Bay Michigan, a couple of French F-18 rock stars gave a seminar and they said they only use leech tell tales to trim their main. The objective is to keep the tales just starting to flick to the lee side of the sail. To me this logic made sense, this should be the first place the sail begins to stall. If the tales are constantly flowing back you are under sheeted, if they constantly on the lee side of the sail you are over sheeted. I also have a set of tell tales on the luff of the sail. I focus on the outside and the leech tales and pretty much ignore the inside luff tell tail.

If I’m completely out to lunch on this one please correct me and explain why. Please try to keep the jargon straight forward I am not an aerodynamics engineer.

Thanks in advance,
David Ingram

Now I'm intrigued. You won a day with Robbie Daniels at a raffle, you come on the forum to tell us how wonderful it was, but you seem to get cagey when someone asks you specifically what you learned (after teasing us with a little info). Did you sign a confidentiality agreement with Robbie or what? If you don't want to tell all, don't tease. Its like a guy telling his buddies about his hot date, but but no details; "I had this hot date with that hot chick, but I can't tell you about it..." Not good form.

David

I sincerely apologize if I appeared "cagey", because that certainly was not intended. If you took it that way, then I will also specifically apologize to you. I am sorry.

After Jake had mentioned that he had heard pros and cons, I "assumed" it may be a good chance to hear what the other sailors had to say.

The next time I logged on, David Ingram explained "exactly" how they were used. I actually was interested in hearing why others may have a difference of opinion.

Again, I certainly had no intension of coming off the way you feel I did.
Dave

I stand corrected. Still interested in nuggets of wisdom you picked up on what was, I'm sure, a great day of learning.
David

Hi DavidN,
Sorry it took me a while to get back. Things have been a little hectic.

I'll post some of the things that I picked up in the seminar with Robbie. The good sailors probably know most of this, anyway. It may help those "of us" trying to improve our sailing skills.

It appears that when we recreational sail, we tend to get a little lax in the many factors that make the boat go fast. It is not easy to make the transition to the racing mode without bringing some of those "boat slowing" habits with us. With regards "to myself", here are some of the things "I" need to pay attention to.
1. Don't move the tiller so much. I thought I was pretty good at that. WRONG. I am now trying to steer with my fingers, instead of the whole hand.
2. Let the crew handle the mainsheet. It is a whole lot easier to drive the boat without being concerned about it.
3. When surfing waves, I hung on too long before coming up.
As soon as you "feel" the transoms start to come down..start heading up.
4. Practice being smooth in steering the boat through the tacks and jibs. Evidently I was a bit jerky.
5. Be carefull not to move the helm if you need to do something else on the boat. I evidently moved the helm without knowing it when I was sorting out the sheets.
6. I need to utilize the crew to do more and focus on driving the boat.
7. Tales on the main....if they are steady flicking to leeward, the main is oversheeted. When the main is properly sheeted, they will stream straight back for a few seconds then to lee a few seconds, back to straight back for a few seconds...and so forth.
8. Practice moving combined crew weight fore and aft for optimum boat attitude. You can hear the rudders and feel the pressure on the blades.
9. When reaching in shifty, light air be aware of what the apparent wind is doing.

Whew!! I think I covered just about everything. If by chance I incorrectly stated something, I stand corrected.

Hope this helps at least one person trying to be a better sailor.
Dave

That's all good advice. I'm sure Robbie would not like my steering. When its windy and rough, I sometimes go all over while I'm trying to keep the main sheet from washing off the tramp and dragging in the water. Not that I mind it dragging, but I can't ease the sheet quickly when its being pulled hard by the water.

Where did he suggest putting the leach tell tales? I've never had those and it might be useful to try next spring and see how they can help.
Thanks for the feedback.
David