hey guys, been sailing larger boats for awhile and wanted to get into catamarans. Thinking of the Hobie 16 but didn't know how well it handled/speed with 400lbs of skipper and crew. Would another boat be a better choice, maybe a hobie 18, don't really care if its a Hobie or not.
thanks
Pete

@ 400lbs you need to be looking at something in the 18+ foot range.

Probably 20 foot. What kind of water is she gonna be sailed in? Lakes? Ocean?

I second that. 16 footer is much too small for 400lbs. I've sailed a 17 foot (Nacra 5.2) at 340lbs and that was it's upper limit to maintain decent performance. Had a Hobie 18 as well and it will handle the weight a little better. I now have a Nacra 6.0NA and I sail it at 375 and we're a little below middle of the the range of the class. Best bet is with a 20 footer if you are constantly going to crew with 400lbs. Nacra 6.0NA (biased)(factory spinnaker option - a lot have aftermarket chutes), Hobie20 (rare factory spinnaker option - a few have aftermarket), Inter20 (carbon stick, factory spinnaker, a lot of boats available after Worrell and Tybee races, very competative class), Supercat 20 (if you can find one and care to spend a few more minutes breaking down a 12 foot wide boat for trailering - rarely enough together to have a class at a regatta). Did I leave any major US boats out? There's talk of an F20 class that's trying to get off the ground and hopes to encompass three of these four with slight modifications (cue Carl ).

You ~might~ still want to look at F18 or F18HT. 400lbs is upper limit for their weight range but they are both classes that seem to be building. They'll sail with 400lbs - the only question is how fast (assuming you want to do some racing) and choppy conditions might begin to be a problem causing the bow to submarine. Just a few thoughts

I will only comment on the F18 here :

>>>You ~might~ still want to look at F18 ... . 400lbs is upper limit for their weight range but they are both classes that seem to be building. They'll sail with 400lbs - the only question is how fast (assuming you want to do some racing) and choppy conditions might begin to be a problem causing the bow to submarine.


The F18's have alot of freeboard; more than TheMightyHobie18 and P18 and N5.5. Actaully the F18 do take weight alot better than the older 18 ft boats. Newer F18's have even more freeboard. Mainly because some early hotspots of the F18's had dominant coppy conditions (Holland for example). If an 18 footer is considered than an F18 should be on top of the 18 foot list.

Performancewise. I sailed one several times at 175 kg's (385 lbs) and did well in the races (top 3 positions in handicap out of some 15-20 open class boats, also ahead of majority of competing F18's). Highest weight on a F18 doing well was 200 kg = 442 lbs and they were 28/100 on elapsed (some 22 F20 competed as well) at 15/100 on handicap. And they were 10th/31 in the F18 class.

I'm not saying that 200 kg is a good weight for the F18, hell it is to much for the I-20 as well, but it does show how flat the weight dependency of the F18's are.

Mind some F18's take weight better than others; but in general the F18 class will perform quite well with weight.

Having said all this I think 20 ft is the way to go at 400 lbs

Wouter

Pete,

Your situation was mine two years ago if you are intending to race. The monohual I was bowman on was donated right out from under me. I started racing my Hobie 16 with a combined crew weight of 380# to 400#. We were constantly back of the pack. Yup it needed racing rudders, and yup, it needed new sails. On the few occasion we had enough wind and tried to double trap, the leeward hull would completely submerge, which was not fast as the stanchions caused a lot of extra drag. We would actually be faster with the crew trapping and me hiking. Last fall we bought a Nacra 6.0 NA. Yes the sails are in much better shape and yes it has dagger boards. On a good night (we make fewer mistakes than others) we finish in the top third. On a bad night (we make more mistake than our competitors) we finish mid-pack. I think the biggest factor to our improved race results is our boats ability to perform given our weight. In one year I don’t believe our sailing skill has improved that much to be consider the reason for our improved finishes. Our skill certainly has improved because we are in a lot more situations that require us to handle the boat well and make the right decisions.

I know there are many factors involved in finding the right boat. The Hobie 16 provided some great times on the water. If you plan on being competitive with 400#, I would think 20’ or more would be appropriate. We have a Supercat 22 in our club and that thing is unbelievable. We also have a team in our club that last year raced, I believe very successfully, a Hobie 18 with probably around 400# of total crew weight. I also believe their skill level is something to aspire to!

If I were looking at something in the 16’ range I would be looking at the revitalized Supercat 17, now the ARC 17. I don’t know what the crew weight range is for the ARC 17.

After all that, join us on a Nacra 6.0.

Pete,
I sail a Jav2, it falls into the 18HT class. I weigh 200lbs and I usually sail with someone about my size and the boat does great with that weight. We carry 20sq meters of sail upwind and 40sq meters downwind and you need weight on the wire when it gets over 12-14 knts. Being a formula class you can cut your sails to match your weight. Also, there are a couple of never/hardly/lightly used HT's for sale for cheap. One in PA for 7k, they bought it for the Worrell and then that race never happened.

THe HT is 130kg all up. I can sail the boat by myself or with crew and move it around/rig it mostly by myself or with inexperienced crew. The other 18/20 footers weigh more and a lighter weight is nice when you are moving it around on the beach setting it up.

We have an active bouy racing circuit and we are also beginning to get a match racing circuit going. The HT is the 2003/2004 ICCT boat. See http://www.icct2003.org/2003/
This is going to encourage more manufacturers to build HT's and more sailors will get into the class as well.

Sailing World wrote two articles on the Jav, it gives good idea of what you can expect.

http://www.sailingworld.com/article.jsp?ID=201330&typeID=395&catID=565

http://www.sailingworld.com/article.jsp?ID=201180&typeID=395&catID=565

www.f18htclass.com for more info

Having given you the HT pitch, what I would recommend is you think about where and how you want to sail and race(I'm assuming you do.)

Do you want to sail/race on a lake or on the ocean or in coastal sounds and bays?
Do you want to race bouys or distance?
Do you want to try match racing?

If you want to do distance ocean racing, everyone is racing the I20 or the N6.0. Most distance racing is on the 20ft, 8'6" platform. This is partly due to the particular rules of the distance race (Tybee 500) and partly due to the fact that you can trailor the 8'6" wide boats but you need to assemble the wider boats or trailer them on a tilt trailor.

I think the NAF18's are mostly bouy racing.

If you want to tinker tune your boat, then look at the open class, like the HT.

If you want to buy your boat and not worry about tinkering or working on it, you should consider a more strict class with less open rules, like the Hobie class or the NAF18 class.

Also, fleets tend be localized. Most of the HT's are on the east coast with a concentration in Newport RI, the NAF class is hot in the midwest, MI I think, there is strong N6.0 fleet in New England. The florida races attract a lot of I20's.

Good luck.

my 2cents
Bill Vining
18HT USA 22

Couple other boats to think about:

Nacra 5.2 - I single hand this in light to medium wind, but once the wind comes up, 400lb is good to have on this 17 footer. Really 350 is ideal in medium wind.

Nacra 570 - not really a "race" boat, but it is fast and will hold a lot of weight. 400lb is just fine on that.

thanks for all the replies, It would be sailed in rivers, and bays. Well I wasn't looking to race but I don't want the boat to be a dog, I would like to fly a hull. The problem with getting some of these boats, i.e Nacra 6.0 is I didn't want to spend a lot of money. If I were to race I could have about 350lbs on the boat with my one friend.
thanks
pete

How about the Tornado? The older boats can be had for $2K-$4K and they handle heavier crews just fine. At 370 lbs all up, they are easy to move around the boat ramp.

Mike.

For knock-about sailing at a cheap price used, it's hard to beat a Hobie-18, especially if you get the wings.

I agree with keith here... TheMightyHobie18 all the way, especially if you don't have that much experience.

It does great in Rivers and places where conditions can change in the blink of an eye.
(if your rivers are like the ones we have around NC)

Hello,
400 lbs is alot for a beach cat. Get one with high volume hulls like many of the 18-20 footers mentioned.
If you can find one a Gcat 5.7 can cary loads of weight and is simple and fast. we had 1 in the rental with a short mast, and i was always amazed at how fast it was with 6 people on board. still had lots of freeboard w/6 up as well.

Used Tornado? I picked mine up cheap and it can certainly handle the weight. The crew and I took my cousin out for a ride this summer (combined weight approx. 520 lbs) and at points we were flying a hull double trapped at high speed with no problems. Maybe not the best boat if the river you sail on is at all rocky since it's not as durable as a Hobie.
Al

I third that - in that case, a TheMightyHobie18 should be your boat. There's a lot of them, they're available in all levels of shape and expense, good performance, very large trampoline for the boat size, etc. Like all boats however, there are quirks and problematic years / equipment to try and avoid.

On all Hobies, somewhere around '84 (?) Hobie started building masts with a plastic tip a couple of feet long (comp tip) to help reduce injuries from overhead power lines. This is also desireable because it is a prerequisite to race it in a Hobie regatta. However, the comptip does suffer from UV degredation and can break more easily than a solid mast from capsizes. Older boats have a solid aluminum mast that I personally prefer. However, older TheMightyHobie18's also have an aluminum rudder kickup system that gets to be terribly problematic as it ages. There is an upgrade to the rudder system to the newer style for a little over $400. All H18s have had roller furling jibs - which are great if you want to park the boat for whatever reason. Some TheMightyHobie18's have had problems where the beams (primarily the front) attach to the hulls - the hulls had a tendency to develop cracks here. Later boats had more reinforcement added and an update was available to add stainless steel plates to help reinforce. This is just a little off the top of my head, and like you probably already know, you could make a list for any other boat or car of items like this. I liked my TheMightyHobie18 very much.

thanks a lot, I think I'm going to get a Hobie 18 or if im real lucky a Tornado but haven't seen many for sale. I guess the newspaper is about the best place to look for one? How much wind does it take for an hobie 18 to start flying a hull, I assume they are faster than the 16, I think ill have a good time with it.
thanks again
Pete

Hey, check the classified ads on this site...my '81 SailCraft Tornado is listed (at the top at this moment)!

Check websites for ads - you will find many more opportunities than in your local paper. This site has an excellent classified ad section. Also try www.boattraderonline.com, www.thebeachcats.com, and try yahoo classifieds as well. Hobies frequently come up on ebay although that might be a risky proposition unless it's close enough to really inspect (or get one of us to check it out if it's close).

Cats generally (unless you're talking about something super high performance) start flying a hull in 10 to 12. Some a little sooner, some a little later.

Where abouts you located? I happen to have an 18 I'm looking at unloading. Hope this doesn't get in bad with the advert police...