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How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? #270140
03/12/14 12:32 PM
03/12/14 12:32 PM
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Jake Offline OP
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I mean, seriously. We can buy a $150 spot tracker that pings a satellite every 10 minutes and runs for a week on one set of batteries and it can survive on a small catamaran, but an entire jumbo jet doesn't have enough equipment on it to keep it from completely disappearing? This is twice now. It took forever to locate that Air France flight that crashed a couple of years ago too. I'm baffled at how this can happen again in Malaysia.


Jake Kohl
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270146
03/12/14 02:20 PM
03/12/14 02:20 PM
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Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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I'm wondering if this is not the victim of some sort of an electronic attack. Knowing the redundancy in the systems it's hard to imagine how something not malicious could take out all of the electronic gear without blowing the plane apart.


That or the airplane flew through a time warp.

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270147
03/12/14 02:47 PM
03/12/14 02:47 PM
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brucat Offline
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This brings up so many unsettling questions. These may have no relation to the cause of this tragedy, but are shocking nonetheless...

Why, especially after 9/11, can transponders be turned off?

How can passengers with stolen passports buy tickets and successfully board international flights often enough to barely raise an eyebrow?

There are more, but those two have been bugging me the most.

Prayers for the victims and families...

Mike

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270148
03/12/14 02:57 PM
03/12/14 02:57 PM
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Richmond, Va
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soccerguy83 Offline
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The answer to both is because the United States and the FFA can not control what occurs outside of our bounderies on flights not coming to the US.


Brian C.
H14
H16
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270150
03/12/14 03:10 PM
03/12/14 03:10 PM
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brucat Offline
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Seriously, that's your answer??? This is not a US-specific problem, and needs a global solution.

Mike

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270151
03/12/14 04:02 PM
03/12/14 04:02 PM
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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ALIENS!
'nuf said.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270152
03/12/14 05:11 PM
03/12/14 05:11 PM
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brucat Offline
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Why do the aliens get blamed for everything?

Without them, we wouldn't even have the computers for you to post such conspiracy theory garbage in the first place, now would we???!!!!!

Mike

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #270155
03/12/14 07:39 PM
03/12/14 07:39 PM

D
DUH
Unregistered
DUH
Unregistered
D



Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
ALIENS!
'nuf said.


Ancient

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: ] #270157
03/12/14 08:50 PM
03/12/14 08:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
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“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
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“an island in the Pacific....
I saw one blurb that claimed the plane was hit by a meteor.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
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Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: hobie1616] #270158
03/12/14 09:10 PM
03/12/14 09:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
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“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
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“an island in the Pacific....
It was:

Extraterrestrials
Elves
Kidnapped By Terrorists
The Plane Is Hiding Under an Invisibility Cloak
Uighur Militants Attacked the Plane
Life Insurance Scam
North Korea
Exploded Mid-Air and Disintegrated
New Bermuda Triangle
Supernatural
Lost was a prophecy


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
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Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: hobie1616] #270159
03/12/14 09:46 PM
03/12/14 09:46 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/report-chinese-may-show-plane-debris-images-214930324.html

This piece leaves the cause open, but it does share a view of the current status - which is probably old news.

Check out the related stories for your own records. I smell a hostage takeover that went real bad or assassination/terrorism.

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: catandahalf] #270166
03/13/14 07:06 AM
03/13/14 07:06 AM
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Jake Offline OP
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Originally Posted by catandahalf
http://news.yahoo.com/report-chinese-may-show-plane-debris-images-214930324.html

This piece leaves the cause open, but it does share a view of the current status - which is probably old news.

Check out the related stories for your own records. I smell a hostage takeover that went real bad or assassination/terrorism.


I saw that at 11pm last night...it was daylight over there and still no news of whether or not that debris was related to the plane?

Now, that said, I just read that the satellite image is actually from last weekend and (presumably) just discovered. Current and wind may have moved that debris around making it hard to find. There has been so much misinformation on this thing, they're probably waiting until they have something definitive before announcing anything.


Jake Kohl
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270167
03/13/14 07:15 AM
03/13/14 07:15 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Apparently planes went to that location and couldn't find any debris. ...and then another weird piece of the puzzle:

Quote
Adding to the mystery, The Wall Street Journal reported that U.S. investigators suspect the plane flew on for four hours once it lost contact with air traffic controllers, based on data from the planes engines that are automatically downloaded and transmitted to the ground as part of routine maintenance programs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...t-chinese-official-says/article17475200/



Maybe there's a chance this plane is sitting somewhere in India on a quiet (and long) runway? That plane needs a runway that's nearly a mile long to land...not much chance of hiding it (and certainly not for this long with all of those people and cell phones). Seriously, a west direction for four hours at 550mph is at least Sri Lanka. Looking at Google Earth, that plane could have reached the western side of India with that time / range.\


Too bad those engine signals don't include a latitude / longitude...this is just silly.


Jake Kohl
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270169
03/13/14 07:57 AM
03/13/14 07:57 AM
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Jake Offline OP
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/13/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/

So...basically, forget everything you've heard...again. What an example of how not to manage the flow of information.


Jake Kohl
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270170
03/13/14 08:25 AM
03/13/14 08:25 AM
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Naples, FL
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Truly sad for the families of passengers and crew regardless

what I find incredible is that the concept of the plane flying itself in survival mode (ala 2001 space odyssey) with the entire manifest dead (presumably from decompression at 35000 asl)

The engineer's description of what the plane WOULD do (in a hypothetical situation of rapid decompression/crew unresponsiveness) is almost freaky: slowly shutting down non-essential systems as the plane's "health" deteriorated, sending messages via sub-systems to local air/land/sea receivers, etc.

You'd think someone would have installed a few automatically deployed EPRIB from the tail, or chaffe, or SOMETHING..

Or...maybe the plane was captured in flight by a giant stealth plane... by Dr. Evil. To be ransomed for ONE MEEELLLON DOLLARS


Jay

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270171
03/13/14 08:27 AM
03/13/14 08:27 AM
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Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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Originally Posted by Jake
Apparently planes went to that location and couldn't find any debris. ...and then another weird piece of the puzzle:

Quote
Adding to the mystery, The Wall Street Journal reported that U.S. investigators suspect the plane flew on for four hours once it lost contact with air traffic controllers, based on data from the planes engines that are automatically downloaded and transmitted to the ground as part of routine maintenance programs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...t-chinese-official-says/article17475200/



Maybe there's a chance this plane is sitting somewhere in India on a quiet (and long) runway? That plane needs a runway that's nearly a mile long to land...not much chance of hiding it (and certainly not for this long with all of those people and cell phones). Seriously, a west direction for four hours at 550mph is at least Sri Lanka. Looking at Google Earth, that plane could have reached the western side of India with that time / range.\


Too bad those engine signals don't include a latitude / longitude...this is just silly.



I would not rule out that, not hard to hide something where no one is looking

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270172
03/13/14 08:28 AM
03/13/14 08:28 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
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There has been so much conflicting information coming out it's impossible to say what happened. Did it even actually turn back?

There could be a lot of political face saving going on here, when it comes to releasing data. Remember the Egypt Air crash, where the copilot locked the Captain out of the **** then dove the 767 into the ocean? For months the Egyptians tried to blame Boeing and the 767 for that.

If it did turn back, why, and how far did it really get before it either hit the water or went down in the jungle?

If not, and it went down near where the transponder stopped working, where's the debris field?

When I first heard about it, my guess was they had a short in the Electronics compartment, which is below the ****. That would explain why the transponder(s) and radios quit working, that would explain the turnback. You don't fly into China with no radios or transponder, unless you want to be shot down.

OK, so say they had such a problem, turned back, but then the problem escalated to a full blown fire in the E/E compartment. Now what? They would be getting smoke in the ****.

They cannot simply go down there and spray it with an extinguisher. But they would want to descend to a lower altitude (below 10,000') and turn off the pressurization, to keep the smoke from circulating.

Now say the fire is out of control and it eventually renders the airplane unflyable. The 777 uses a 'fly by wire' flight control system, electrons tell the hydrolic actuators what you want it to do, but with zero electrics, not so much.

The crew may have been overcome by the smoke when their oxygen ran out, and the airplane did a slow descent into the sea or jungle, if it got that far.

Remember, this happened at 2am. Pitch dark out over the water, no witnesses other than maybe a fishing boat, but at 2am, they were sleeping too, and seeing an airplane in the dark is pretty hard if the position lights aren't working.

If it blew up inflight, due to a bomb or a meteor strike, there would be floating seat cushions, luggage and bodies all over the place.

If the crew was able to set it down gently on the water, ala Sully on the Hudson, (highly doubtful at night) the airplane would eventually fill with water and sink. Again, this was 2am local, it might have floated for a few hours, but still gone under before anyone (like Fishermen) was able to spot it. There are huge 20 man life rafts at every door however, and those would have been deployed and spotted by now, I would hope.

Unless they didn't put it down so gently, and everyone was dead on impact, and it sank. Still, there should be some debris floating by now.

I'm going with Aliens.


Blade F16
#777
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270173
03/13/14 08:33 AM
03/13/14 08:33 AM
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brucat Offline
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We need to get back to Walter Cronkite and Tom Brokaw. The media today would rather BE the story than report it...

BTW, Todd, if you were trying to be sarcastic about the aliens, I missed that (and I'm sorry).

Mike

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Timbo] #270174
03/13/14 08:37 AM
03/13/14 08:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
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Naples, FL
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would any passenger be able to initiate a text/voice call if anything other than something sudden were to happen (instantly incapacitating all crew and passengers)?

And if a large explosion occurred (enough to completely demolish the plane beyond small pieces), you'd think NSA or some spy agency would see/detect it? I mean really, NORAD isn't totally asleep at the switch here.

And is that the best Chinese satellites can do in terms of resolution? I'm sure they've got stuff as sharp as western nations (heck, they built half the crap in our surveillance satellites). But maybe they have older satellites patrol this area of the globe and use their top stuff to look at other areas (like S.Korea or something)

My money is on something sudden happened, since I'm sure any passenger with a communication device would attempt some contact if a long, drawn out problem happened (like smoke in the cabin, etc)


Jay

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270175
03/13/14 08:52 AM
03/13/14 08:52 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
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Yeahbut...you think they are going to get a cell signal from inside the airframe, out over the water?

I seriously doubt it. I can't even get one half the time when I'm on the taxiway in Atlanta!

This ain't the USA we are talking about, it's the third world.

I'll bet it's in the jungle, in a lot of little pieces, far from where they are looking right now. Nobody saw it go in because it was 2am, and until some farmer stumbles across the wreckage, they'll be looking for a long, long time.

Or it might have gone into the water, with a very small or no debris field if it stayed mostly intact.


Blade F16
#777
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