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Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: waterbug_wpb] #271611
04/21/14 11:31 AM
04/21/14 11:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Nah....probably back to the Florida 300 (or whatever it is) next year.


Jake Kohl
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #271622
04/21/14 05:53 PM
04/21/14 05:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline OP
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cyberspeed  Offline OP
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Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
I'm a huge proponent of personal responsibility and love the quote above, but the 15 pages( pretty excessive) of SIs that I read seem to contradict that. I'll read the updated version and reconsider. The more you dictate the more responsibility you assume as the OA. Your race ,your call but I think you are regulating yourself into a fix instead of out of one. I want this race to flourish as much or more than anyone so this isn't being a hater.


The SI's are actually 10 pages by the time I reduced the font size from 14 to 12 (standard) and cleaned it up a bit. I even left everything bold for the visually impaired like myself. I think the scope is in line with the GT 300 (13 pages) and the EC 300 (9 pages). I am not really sure which areas you think we should delete.

Anyone that has suggestions or issues with the SI's are welcome to contact Warren (wggreen08@cfl.rr.com)and myself (info@sailseries.com) as Todd has already done. We plan on posting a hopefully "final version" on May 1st. Please let us know before then and cc me so I will be in the loop.

Quote
Your SPOT comment about letting you see if someone was in trouble will only lead to trouble if you call in the Calvary and someone stopped because they wanted a sandwich. Besides , after all of the races that I've participated in and tried to follow that involved SPOTs I'd surmise that reliability is "SPOTTY" at best. I guess that's how they got their name. I'll trust my life to an EPIRB, if organizers want to publicize the race with SPOTs then that should be their responsibility not mine, financially or otherwise.


My actual quote was "possibly help dispatch non emergency help" not call the Calvary. I consider SPOT units important to running a long distance event. Even Chuck who hates technology agrees on this. That is why he brought me aboard for tracking the last Tybee 500 and mandated it.

It is very important we know how much time we have to get down and get everything set up in case we have other errands to run. It is also important we know how late the day or night might be. Having boats out at night without having a clue where they are is just silly in this day and age. knowing where they are and how much progress takes a huge load of stress off of us and the ground crews.

The marketing benefits are secondary. I bought my initial Spot unit because of safety not marketing and upgraded because of the additional texting ability in emergency situations. I also own an EPIRB, VHF, and the rest of the safety gear on the list because I sail regularly in the area you are racing in.

Imagine if they had a SPOT unit on the Malaysian Flight. They would at least be able to reduce the search area. As it stands, no one has a clue where the plane is even after all this time. Even with all of the additional safety gear they have. The SPOT units are not perfect but the newer ones are a lot more reliable than the original ones. They can possibly help in a situation where the sailors are unable to dispatch help themselves.

I have cooked gumbo and usually supplied drinks for every Tybee 500 and my wife will be making the gumbo for the Palm Beach Shores leg this year. If you want to show some gratitude, PLEASE rent a SPOT so I will know if I have time to eat lunch before setting up the finish line at the end of each leg. Your ground crew might even like to know where you are and if they can take a break for lunch.

Believe me, I would rather be on my boat racing than on the shore. And if I was working my job instead of spending all the time setting up this event, I would be able to afford the sails I need to go racing.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
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Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: cyberspeed] #271624
04/21/14 08:31 PM
04/21/14 08:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Originally Posted by cyberspeed

It is very important we know how much time we have to get down and get everything set up in case we have other errands to run. It is also important we know how late the day or night might be. Having boats out at night without having a clue where they are is just silly in this day and age. knowing where they are and how much progress takes a huge load of stress off of us and the ground crews.

The marketing benefits are secondary. I bought my initial Spot unit because of safety not marketing and upgraded because of the additional texting ability in emergency situations. I also own an EPIRB, VHF, and the rest of the safety gear on the list because I sail regularly in the area you are racing in.


This makes my point exactly , they are for the benefit of everyone except the racers who are already shouldering all of the financial burden ( hence 10 boats or bust).They aren't reliable enough to count on in an emergency and that's what the racers need them for, other than that they are a headache( mounted in the way, remove every night, put back on in the morning and do the silly button dance to try and get them to work). If the RC wants them so they know how much time they have, then they should find a sponsor to foot the bill for them, not expect us to. Plus it can add an unfair advantage to know where everyone is by talking with your ground crew who is checking tracks.
And we still don't have finish waypoints.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: cyberspeed] #271631
04/22/14 06:11 AM
04/22/14 06:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline OP
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Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
SAILING INSTRUCTION CHANGES:

ADDED:
3.2 General Waypoints
Islamorada: 24°55.125'N; 80°37.77'W
Key Biscayne: 25°41.735'N; 80°9.39'W
Palm Beach Shores: 26°46.736'N; 80°1.881'W
Vero Beach: 27°38.026'N; 80°21.045'W
Cocoa Beach: 28°22.124'N; 80°36.112'W
Note: These waypoints are for general reference only. The actual finish line will be determined when the race committee surveys the finishing area on the day of the race.

CHANGED:
8. Required Safety Equipment
8.1 For Each crew member, attached to person
a. US Coast Guard (USCG) approved PFD personal PFD, worn at all times while racing. All life preservers will be in reasonably new & undamaged condition.

Note: The RC will recognize the country certification of a pfd used by a sailor in a boat of his own competing country. Foreign sailors using US registered vessels must wear USCG approved pfd’s. This is IAW USCG Regulations. Modification of a pfd voids the certification either country.

b. One small Enclosed or folded knife
c. Whistle
d. Waterproof flashlight
e. Personal Safety strobe light
f. One 406 MHz EPIRB. One SPOT Satellite Messenger can be used instead of the EPIRB by one of the sailors but not both. If a SPOT is used it must be in tracking mode, capable of notifying rescue services, your team leader and the RC at 561.371.2663. SPOTs must be demonstrated at inspections and show a positive test. (Optional per individual in Dogfight) *(See Asterisk item below)

Note: 121 & 243MHz EPIRBS are no longer acceptable. Proof of NOAA Registration of 406 MHz EPIRBs must be provided to the race equipment inspector. Each Sailor shall have available to him liquids to sustain himself for the duration of the days sail.

8.2 For Each Boat, secured to boat:
a. Waterproof VHF Radio, (Strongly Recommended for Dogfight, but optional)
b. One Water protected cell phone
c. Marine Grade Compass, attached to boat or a secured handheld for Dogfight.
d. Three Current day/night flares (At least one should be night rated.)
e. Safety line, at least 20’ in length, to be used for towing
f. One throw-able PFD
g. SPOT Satellite Trackers are highly encouraged if not carried by one of the sailors. The SPOT Tracker must be in tracking mode, attached to be visible for satellites, per boat. We will be using www.Kattack.com tracking system for live SPOT tracking. It will be available via www.Florida300.com website with daily replays. We will also have a monitor at the finishing locations each day showing the live tracking for race committee, team members & spectators. *(See Asterisk item below)

* SPOT Tracking is required to be coordinated with Craig Van Eaton (email: info@sailseries.com; phone: 561.371.2663). We will have SPOT’s available to rent at $40 for the trip which must be arranged in advance by contacting Craig Van Eaton.

The updated Sailing Instruction can be found at www.Florida300.com. Anyone that has suggestions or issues with the SI's are welcome to email BOTH Warren (wggreen08@cfl.rr.com)and myself (info@sailseries.com). We plan on posting a "final version" on May 1st.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: cyberspeed] #271633
04/22/14 06:46 AM
04/22/14 06:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Thanks Craig.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #271635
04/22/14 07:44 AM
04/22/14 07:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by cyberspeed

It is very important we know how much time we have to get down and get everything set up in case we have other errands to run. It is also important we know how late the day or night might be. Having boats out at night without having a clue where they are is just silly in this day and age. knowing where they are and how much progress takes a huge load of stress off of us and the ground crews.

The marketing benefits are secondary. I bought my initial Spot unit because of safety not marketing and upgraded because of the additional texting ability in emergency situations. I also own an EPIRB, VHF, and the rest of the safety gear on the list because I sail regularly in the area you are racing in.


This makes my point exactly , they are for the benefit of everyone except the racers who are already shouldering all of the financial burden ( hence 10 boats or bust).They aren't reliable enough to count on in an emergency and that's what the racers need them for, other than that they are a headache( mounted in the way, remove every night, put back on in the morning and do the silly button dance to try and get them to work). If the RC wants them so they know how much time they have, then they should find a sponsor to foot the bill for them, not expect us to. Plus it can add an unfair advantage to know where everyone is by talking with your ground crew who is checking tracks.
And we still don't have finish waypoints.


You could always do like Randy and somehow that Spot never seems to work. But, seriously, the SPOT isn't that big of a deal. The batteries last forever (especially if you get the lithium type). I'm pretty sure you can get through the entire week on one set of batteries if you remember to turn it off at night. Second, who has time to call their ground crew unless they're broken on the beach? Third, if you can't see your competition in a race like this, having "inside" knowledge about where they are isn't going to help you.




Jake Kohl
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #271638
04/22/14 08:05 AM
04/22/14 08:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
If the RC wants them so they know how much time they have, then they should find a sponsor to foot the bill for them, not expect us to. Plus it can add an unfair advantage to know where everyone is by talking with your ground crew who is checking tracks.
And we still don't have finish waypoints.


Todd, once you and Dalton drop off the horizon behind us you guys will be a distance memory and if I do call Kathy I will only be asking her to fix us a cold beverage. Not to worry I'll have beverages waiting for you guys too when you get in... assuming you get in before my bedtime.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: cyberspeed] #271639
04/22/14 08:17 AM
04/22/14 08:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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If communications are unlimited (not restricted to emergencies) by the SIs, an excellent case can be made that since everyone has access to the tracker data, it's information freely available to all boats and does not break a rule.

I can think of a few situations where it might help, but if everyone has the same access, it's no big deal.

The other critical use is attracting fans. These big distance races are every bit as important to the image of our sport as the major championships.

Mike

Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #271640
04/22/14 08:29 AM
04/22/14 08:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline OP
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cyberspeed  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
they are for the benefit of everyone except the racers who are already shouldering all of the financial burden ( hence 10 boats or bust).


We already had sponsorships pledged and still needed 10 boats. Our entry fee is also lower than the others:
GT 300 $395/$500
EC 300 $790 plus requires SPOT
Florida 300 $300

We are doing things by the book and there are a lot of costs and time involved. We had to get approval from each town, we had to set up a nonprofit to get the reduced insurance rates and I have been working with the "DEP" for the last two week.

The current sponsors/donors, some of which prefer not to be acknowledged deserve race coverage and tracking gives the most bang for the buck.

I am also going to be "Sponsoring" most of the multimedia content by not charging. This includes risking my quadcopter for aerial footage. I want proper race coverage for my time and equipment involvement.

If I am going to work a race like this in the future, I want to know where ALL the boats are. It is just unresponsible not to. Next year the tracking money will be taken out of the sponsorship money before any is allocated for running the race or I will not be involved. We are doing this for you, not for us.

I have wasted enough of my time on this subject and agree we disagree and will not comment further.

Your welcome.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: brucat] #271641
04/22/14 08:31 AM
04/22/14 08:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Originally Posted by brucat


The other critical use is attracting fans. These big distance races are every bit as important to the image of our sport as the major championships.

Mike


Craig and I talked briefly about some of this too...the tracking page / viewing options for the Spots is pretty crummy. I have a hard time figuring out where exactly people are so I rarely have checked tracker pages. Someone may show back in the fleet when, in reality, their tracker just hasn't updated in 20 minutes. However, I'll be checking in our Florida300'ers this time.

We need a (reliable) mapping program that takes the pings and will extrapolate current position based on the last known speed and direction so you get an (mostly) correct representation of relative position.


Jake Kohl
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: Jake] #271642
04/22/14 08:46 AM
04/22/14 08:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline OP
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cyberspeed  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Jake
We need a (reliable) mapping program that takes the pings and will extrapolate current position based on the last known speed and direction so you get an (mostly) correct representation of relative position.


That information could be incorrect too especially if something happened to cause it not to transmit like a turtled boat.

We will be renting GEN 2 units which are more reliable then the original ones we used for the Tybee. Hopefully that will improve our tracking results.

We are also going to be using Kattack software which is quicker to update than what we used during the Tybee. Kattack software was designed by sailors for sailors. I have been trying to put out a release about that for the last week but haven't had a chance.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: cyberspeed] #271645
04/22/14 08:57 AM
04/22/14 08:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Originally Posted by cyberspeed
Originally Posted by Jake
We need a (reliable) mapping program that takes the pings and will extrapolate current position based on the last known speed and direction so you get an (mostly) correct representation of relative position.


That information could be incorrect too especially if something happened to cause it not to transmit like a turtled boat.

We will be renting GEN 2 units which are more reliable then the original ones we used for the Tybee. Hopefully that will improve our tracking results.

We are also going to be using Kattack software which is quicker to update than what we used during the Tybee. Kattack software was designed by sailors for sailors. I have been trying to put out a release about that for the last week but haven't had a chance.


Oh cool!...the Kattack guys seem to have it figured out. I'll be looking forward to that.


Jake Kohl
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: cyberspeed] #271648
04/22/14 09:29 AM
04/22/14 09:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Does Kattack do live updating, or are you still pulling it off of each GPS at the end of the day?

CRAW paid for a subscription and most everyone bought GPS's to do it, but the novelty wore off at the club level after a season. Cool, and a good learning tool, but it became one more thing someone had to take care of each day.


I'm boatless.
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: Karl_Brogger] #271649
04/22/14 09:33 AM
04/22/14 09:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline OP
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cyberspeed  Offline OP
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Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Live updating from the SPOTS.

Last edited by cyberspeed; 04/22/14 09:34 AM.

craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
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Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: cyberspeed] #271650
04/22/14 09:57 AM
04/22/14 09:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline OP
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Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: David Ingram] #271684
04/22/14 07:22 PM
04/22/14 07:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
If the RC wants them so they know how much time they have, then they should find a sponsor to foot the bill for them, not expect us to. Plus it can add an unfair advantage to know where everyone is by talking with your ground crew who is checking tracks.
And we still don't have finish waypoints.


Todd, once you and Dalton drop off the horizon behind us you guys will be a distance memory and if I do call Kathy I will only be asking her to fix us a cold beverage. Not to worry I'll have beverages waiting for you guys too when you get in... assuming you get in before my bedtime.


So you're driving your car, I thought you were sailing. Thanks for the drinks though.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: brucat] #271685
04/22/14 07:23 PM
04/22/14 07:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Originally Posted by brucat
If communications are unlimited (not restricted to emergencies) by the SIs, an excellent case can be made that since everyone has access to the tracker data, it's information freely available to all boats and does not break a rule.

I can think of a few situations where it might help, but if everyone has the same access, it's no big deal.

The other critical use is attracting fans. These big distance races are every bit as important to the image of our sport as the major championships.

Mike

Not readily broadcast. Cell phones don't fall under that category, unless you are the NSA.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: cyberspeed] #271688
04/22/14 08:21 PM
04/22/14 08:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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OK, so you protest them for talking to their road crew under outside assistance or Rule 2 if that's warranted. In that scenario, the issue isn't the tracking, it's talking to the support team, period.

Mike

Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: brucat] #271690
04/22/14 08:48 PM
04/22/14 08:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by brucat
OK, so you protest them for talking to their road crew under outside assistance or Rule 2 if that's warranted. In that scenario, the issue isn't the tracking, it's talking to the support team, period.

Mike

Read the SIs. That's legal.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Florida 300 May 19-May 22 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #271695
04/22/14 09:40 PM
04/22/14 09:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by brucat
OK, so you protest them for talking to their road crew under outside assistance or Rule 2 if that's warranted. In that scenario, the issue isn't the tracking, it's talking to the support team, period.

Mike

Read the SIs. That's legal.


I've met your road crews. Nice folks for certain! But you can talk to them all day long and it wouldn't bother me. Same goes for ours...hell...I once hired a forecaster who was more consistently wrong than if I wet my finger and stuck it in the air. I get the perception - but reality is that talking to people while you are sailing up the coast really doesn't offer much more than a distraction from sailing fast. No computer model is accurate enough to predict the wind that sets up on the small close-to-shore level we race in.


Jake Kohl
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