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by '81 Hobie 16 Lac Leman. 11/11/22 12:11 PM
Spinnaker on Nacra 5.2; halyard fouls when (un)furling jib
by '81 Hobie 16 Lac Leman. 11/11/22 11:50 AM
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Unusual Sails for Cats? #272934
05/30/14 10:19 PM
05/30/14 10:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 493
Minnesota
Jeff Peterson Offline OP
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Jeff Peterson  Offline OP
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Minnesota
Are there other kinds of sails that have been used or tried on cats, beyond the main, jib, and spin? (Is the fixed wing considered a main?) For that matter, has a missen mast ever been tried?



Jeff Peterson
H-16 Sail #23721
Big Marine Lake, MN
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Jeff Peterson] #272936
05/31/14 03:58 AM
05/31/14 03:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
I remember seeing a video some years ago, of a big kite, like a kite sailing kite, pulling a cat with two guys on board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzN8ziJZqQE

Another one, a little better view of the kite:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRVnL79JNdI


Blade F16
#777
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Jeff Peterson] #272940
05/31/14 08:17 AM
05/31/14 08:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Northfield Mn
A mizzen mast would make tacking a small cat pretty brutal.

Last edited by Karl_Brogger; 05/31/14 08:17 AM.

I'm boatless.
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Karl_Brogger] #272944
05/31/14 02:28 PM
05/31/14 02:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 493
Minnesota
Jeff Peterson Offline OP
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Jeff Peterson  Offline OP
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Minnesota
If you had extra long hulls, would a mizzen be more of a possibility?



Jeff Peterson
H-16 Sail #23721
Big Marine Lake, MN
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Jeff Peterson] #272950
05/31/14 05:48 PM
05/31/14 05:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
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Dazz  Offline
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Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
softwing on a f18 anyone?



C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Jeff Peterson] #272952
05/31/14 08:11 PM
05/31/14 08:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 473
Panama City, Florida
Redtwin Offline
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I wonder how much weight aloft it adds. It looked like they had some minor stability issues at times. Maybe rake it back some? Can you do that with a wing?


Rob V. Nacra 5.2 Panama City
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Dazz] #272955
06/01/14 06:42 AM
06/01/14 06:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Originally Posted by Dazz
softwing on a f18 anyone?



I've been thinking about that concept (soft wing, where you can raise/lower it with a halyard) since I first saw something similar on a windsurfer.

Question: Where did the fore stay attach?

And why no jib?

Also, if it does develop more lift than a traditional F18 mainsail, perhaps you can get away with a shorter mast/sail combo, helping reduce the weight aloft issue?

I would think this could work quite well on an A cat, where you don't have the jib/spinnaker issue. I wonder why we haven't seen that yet.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Jeff Peterson] #272956
06/01/14 06:56 AM
06/01/14 06:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 382
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
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SE MI / NE IN
Regarding a shorter rig, isn't it best to go with a higher aspect ratio? IIRC, tip losses start to kill the efficiency of shorter low aspect rigs.

Regarding the jib, I think AC72 guys had it mostly for maneuvering. Even with near zero camber they generated too much drag at high speed. This boat isn't in that speed realm yet (add foils?) but watching the video they didn't look like they needed any more pressure up front.


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Jeff Peterson] #272959
06/01/14 08:53 PM
06/01/14 08:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
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WA, ID, MT
There was the solid winged 18 sq Wild Turkey, whose dominance may have contributed to the demise of the fleet. Very shophisticated construction for day, both the wing and the boat, which was very lightweight. Lots of money and time invested at the time.

For sale in N CA, contact me if interested.

Dave

Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: davefarmer] #272966
06/02/14 07:42 AM
06/02/14 07:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
I just read that Cruising World article about the 70 foot wooden cat built a long time ago (70's?) just restored and it hit a rock at anchorage and partially sank.

It has a mizzen and broke all kinds of records in it's prime

There is also a commercial production cruising cat (maybe 40'?) with what looks like two furling jibs and no main.

Someone here posted pics of a cat with what looked like two windsurf rigs (one on each hull).


Jay

Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: waterbug_wpb] #272974
06/02/14 09:08 AM
06/02/14 09:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I just read that Cruising World article about the 70 foot wooden cat built a long time ago (70's?) just restored and it hit a rock at anchorage and partially sank.

It has a mizzen and broke all kinds of records in it's prime

There is also a commercial production cruising cat (maybe 40'?) with what looks like two furling jibs and no main.

Someone here posted pics of a cat with what looked like two windsurf rigs (one on each hull).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeMVCL6t8vQ


Jake Kohl
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Jeff Peterson] #272976
06/02/14 09:33 AM
06/02/14 09:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
old hand
davefarmer  Offline
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Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
Flight Risk(custom 24' cat) briefly supported a biplane rig before I owned it. It was being used as a test bed for the concept, the owner was contemplating a 65' cruising cat with that set up. Worked quite well, lower center of effort, no heeling in our testing, great simplicity with no headsails, which was his quest. Only the windward rig was powered up in a beam reach, but the leeward rig was quite docile, and the boat still moved nicely on that course. Both rigs outboard on a dead downwind run was great. Probably not as high performance as a sloop rig, but great for recreational sailing, worthy of more experimentation in my eyes.

Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Timbo] #272979
06/02/14 09:50 AM
06/02/14 09:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
Pooh-Bah
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
Originally Posted by Timbo
Originally Posted by Dazz
softwing on a f18 anyone?



I've been thinking about that concept (soft wing, where you can raise/lower it with a halyard) since I first saw something similar on a windsurfer.

Question: Where did the fore stay attach?

And why no jib?

Also, if it does develop more lift than a traditional F18 mainsail, perhaps you can get away with a shorter mast/sail combo, helping reduce the weight aloft issue?

I would think this could work quite well on an A cat, where you don't have the jib/spinnaker issue. I wonder why we haven't seen that yet.


In the vid when they're raising the sail you can see the fore stay going to the top of the mast.


Have Fun
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: waterbug_wpb] #272986
06/02/14 03:31 PM
06/02/14 03:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 858
Victoria Australia
Pirate Offline
old hand
Pirate  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 858
Victoria Australia
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
..... Someone here posted pics of a cat with what looked like two windsurf rigs (one on each hull).


this one ????

[Linked Image]


borrowed from ..... here



Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Jeff Peterson] #272995
06/03/14 07:26 AM
06/03/14 07:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
T
tshan Offline
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tshan  Offline
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T

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
This is Cat2Fold ....

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Tom
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Jeff Peterson] #272998
06/03/14 10:12 AM
06/03/14 10:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Team Phillips which was supposed to compete in "The Race" in 2000, but broke up in the North Atlantic during testing.

[Linked Image]


I'm boatless.
Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Karl_Brogger] #273010
06/03/14 02:42 PM
06/03/14 02:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
[Linked Image]


Jay

Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: waterbug_wpb] #273011
06/03/14 02:48 PM
06/03/14 02:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
This is the one I was thinking of...

Atlantic 47 (Chris White design)
[Linked Image]


Jay

Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: Jeff Peterson] #273020
06/03/14 08:26 PM
06/03/14 08:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
old hand
davefarmer  Offline
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Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
Anyone heard anything about how successfully this has sailed. I think it an ingenious concept. Any articles/reviews?

Re: Unusual Sails for Cats? [Re: davefarmer] #273047
06/05/14 07:42 AM
06/05/14 07:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
only saw a brief summary in Cruising World. Possibly this month's issue?

Light air boat test, but apparently the owner who bought one is a pilot and really liked all the foil tweaking he could do..

I believe it has daggarboards which might help it get upwind because I can't quite picture how well it goes upwind...


Jay

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