Them I'm sorry to inform you that the SC/ARC mast is not the most streamlined aluminium mast for a doublehander nor singlehander.

Summary: The SC/ARC mast : has a design point chord of 6.5 ins and a max width of 3.25 ins for a slenderness ratio of 2.0 was designed in 1978 and is of the NACA 0050 type.


The mast section (which shall remain nameless) I hold in my hand right now (a cut off from a full length section that was to long) was designed in the mid 80's.

It's minor axis max length (= max width) = 63 mm = 63 / 25.2 = 2.5 inch
It's major axis length (including the sailtrack which is part of the fairing) = 151 mm = 151 / 25.2 = 5.99 inch = say 6 inch

Its slenderness ratio (as you defined it) = length / width = 151 / 63 = 2.397 = 2.4

Of course its frontal projected area is only = 2.5 / 3.5 = 71 %

I have difficulty in decyphering your elliptic tip measure. "It has a design point chord of 6.5 ins". I'm far more familiar with defining tips like these by the radius of the approximating (smaller) circle. The mast section I hold has a approximation tip circle of radius 22 mm = 22 / 25.2 = 0.87 inch = about 7/8 inch. The mastsection wall leaves the approximating circle at 16 mm height = 16/25.2 = 63.45 % = 63 %. I also think that the design cord alone doesn't fix the round; it needs a second parameter. But I concede that I may have misintepreted the measure.

I don't know its base NACA foil section.

Nevertheless : with a higher slenderness ratio and reduced frontal area, the mastsection I hold in my hand is the better of your named section when looking at streamlinedness. I really don't think the elliptical tip round will differ much between the sections especially not since your mast is wider for a given length which forces the tip round to be less elliptical.



>>>When compared to Hobie, Prindle, Nacra and Tornado masts of the same period, the SC section was the only one with a thickness to chord ratio as low as 0.50. It had a slenderness ratio of 2.0, better than any of the other boats of its time

Ahhh, but this is not what you've said in your other post.

You clearly stated (and I quote) :"The SC/ARC mast section is the most streanlined section, Al extrusion, of any sections available for two person boats."

I hold a doublehander alu mast extrusion in my hand that is counterproof of your statement.

Fast and Safe Sailing as well Bill,

Wouter

Not true. The Isotopes made by international fiberglass come standard with a righting pole that is more than adequate to right a boat their size.

I haven't had too big of a problem with my Nacra 5.2 turtle-ing. Seal the mast, and be quick to jump on a hull.

Couple benefits of the Nacra 5.2:
1. Racing, the Portsmouth rating is very favorable. Pull off the jib and race it single handed and the rating barely changes. In 3ft chop you can stay with Hobie 20s up wind or atleast I have.

2. Cheap... $1300-$3000

3. Solid construction and company support.

Hey Bruce,

It wasn't as simple as just saying, " Hey, it's blowin' up around 17..... 18 knots , Let's go for a sail and pop the chute!" It was the Nationals and they didn't cancel. I'm thinking............ " are we really going to race in this?" Then it's like...." are they really going to use their spinnakers in this." So when the front 3 or 4 I17R's immediately popped their chutes after rounding " A " mark and their masts took the load, I raised mine also and what a ride it was!!!!! The boat seemed to just fly. We were racing in the bay; not the gulf! I only flipped once .......... it happened during a gybe. Big gust, I think.

Happy Sailing,

Tom

And anybody needing a righting pole on an A-cat is to young to be sailing alone anyway !


Wouter

Hello MuaganH17,
Well good for Isotope. I've never seen one of those boats in Florida. Here we have Hobies, Prindles, Nacras and I20s, G cats and a few Mysteres and Tornados and some A cats in Jacksonville. Maybe if that Nacra off the coast at Daytona had a righting pole, someone would not have lost their life and a beach cat company would not have been put out of business.
Bill

Hi Wouter,
A 2.5inch by 6 inch mast would not do the job for me on the SC20. I did not survay the world for existing extrusions but I did survey the US and English and Italian mast extruders back in '78 and no one had a mast that would do the job except for some that weighed form 2 to 4 pounds per foot. The Tornado section, 3inches by 5.5 or 6.0 inches would not do the job. I broke three Tornado masts in three months, identical breaks. The extra 20% of boat width and double trapeze of the SC20 more than overloaded the popular Tornado mast at that time. The section you point out probably wouldn't stand up to two persons sitting on the windward hull of a 12ft wide boat and it certainly would not keep the boat from going turtle in case of a turnover. The section you suggest is academic trivia relative to the problem I chose to solve.
Bill

Jerry I think a FX1 would be a really good choice as I have heard nothing but good reports about it and yes the resale value will be good should you decide to sell it. I know I may get blasted for saying this but if you are looking for a light weight single hander to sail on small lakes (or big) the Hobie Bravo is a blast. Last year I sailed mine on the desert lakes in Eastern WA. and never had so much fun before. Actually sailed on the small lakes that I am told were never sailed on before by the locals. Mind you the Bravo is not a high speed cat but it’s a blast to fly a hull on, etc. If you were to buy one a boom kit is a must otherwise down wind sailing will really suck.

As for not being able to solo right the H16 well that is not true as I solo sail my H16 all the time and have capsized on several occasions and solo-righted it just fine and I only weigh 150 lbs.

I am biased as I am the Hobie dealer for Eastern WA, North Idaho, and Western Montana or those are the areas I have been serving and the Bravo was a well liked boat in those areas with no complaints after purchase. Actually sold some to Laser sailors and they like it more than their old Lasers, and that is saying something as several of them are active Laser sailors.

Email me if you have any questions at cart@sail-s.com

Hey Tom,

I went to the www.keysailing.com site,...did not locate the pics of the regatta mentioned,....can you give us a specific link?........really want to see the I-17R in action

regards,

Bruce
St. Croix

ps..the spin run must have been a real blast for you all!!

Bruce,

After you get to the keysailing web site, click on the sailor's page. Then scroll down the 2003 schedule to Performance national date which is underlined. Click on that. Then you'll see Perf. Nats. again click on it and there are like 9 pages of pictures and a brief write-up. I believe page 4 shows the pictures of the windiest day. Not too many I17 pictures but you'll get the idea from the other ones F18, I20, NACRA 5.5 uni, and NACRA 6.0, etc.

Tom

Tom and others,

1...nice pics,....looked like a good time..............maybe you guys(gals) should come down here for Nationals?

2. Talking about design,......I saw the F-18 in Rolex-St. Thomas in March 2003,..........I thought it was a I-17...! if viewed from the bow, looking back,....the hull design is real, real close,.....just 6 inches longer,....what do you think?


regards,

Bruce
St. Croix
ps.....it has been blowing 20-25 for about 3 weeks now,...it was 25mph at 10 pm!

While my solo sailing style is out of your league with your 300 pound rocket-ships, I must say that I have been enjoying this thread of posts. It is very encouaraging to see such harmony and active participation on this forum. It seems that the new year is off to a very good start here!

Best of luck in your choice of new boat!

GARY

Wouter, thanks for your (most recent) excellent reply and input.

Regarding the H170 and trapezing/capsizing/ballast, it is a centerboard boat with a small amout of weight in the centerboard but none in the bilge or anywhere else (I think it has 30 or 50 lbs in the centerboard). In fact, the boat capsizes quite easily - just standing on the rail will put the boat right over; I've test capsized it a couple of times to see how easy it would be to right. The boat wasn't designed to be singlhanded so it would be easier to handle with another person or two on board. The hiking straps and trapeze I've added have really helped.

Regarding adjusting the H170 mast rake, the boat has adjustable chainplates on the upper and lower shrouds but these are only good for adjusting tesion on the rig, not mast rake since the forestay is fixed length and an integral part of the furling jib. The only solution would be to add a shackle above the furling drum to lengthen the forestay but then the helm would likely be unbalanced when sailing sloop rigged.

I recently heard someone say that there aren't that many new Inter 17's, FXone's, or F16's being sold these days because many/most of the people buying a modern singlehanded catamaran are buying A Class cats, even if their interests are primarily recreational and not racing. I did not include A Class in my original short list despite the fact that the low weight was very attractive because I thought it might be too fragile and not as well suited for recreational sailing as it is for racing. I had assumed A class sailing characteristics would be quite similar to the FXone/Fox due to what appears to be a similar hull shape. Is this fundamentally true or is it in fact a more demanding boat to master due to it's lighter weight, requirement for and responsiveness to tuning, and it's need for finnesse as your subsequent post suggests?

Anyway, thanks to you and everyone else for the great advice.

Jerry

Jerry,

You're welcome.

Seems like the H170 is getting to be a more attractive boat with the post. Only 30-50 lbs balast is not much indeed. What a great daysailor ! Spinny, planing hull, roomy and not much weight. And fast as somebody in another post commented; she looks pretty as well. One learns something new every week as theysay.


With :"just standing on the rail will put the boat right over and I've test capsized it a couple of times to see how easy it would be to right." If this is the case than I think you should be able to trapeze off a cat very quickly. Mainpoint to learn with trapezing off a cat or skiff is one needs to develop a feel to keep the boat stabil with steering and careful sheeting. I do know a few mono classes with alot more balast and these boat are far more docile or even can not be capsized by a crew on the wire. This is not the case in your situation it seems. I trust that you'll put the boat over when you're one the wire and make a mistake ? If So than I think I will have to correct my opinion back to :"any singlehander will be fine, even modern ones"


>>Regarding adjusting the H170 mast rake, the boat has adjustable chainplates on the upper and lower shrouds but these are only good for adjusting tesion on the rig, not mast rake since the forestay is fixed length and an integral part of the furling jib. The only solution would be to add a shackle above the furling drum to lengthen the forestay but then the helm would likely be unbalanced when sailing sloop rigged.

Actually you need to shorten the forestay when removing the jib. The CE of the mainsail alone must be moved forward when removing the jib and its contribution in the CE. By teh way must sailboats have what is called a Pigtail high in the forestay near the mast. Often replacing this with a chainplate or shorten this and put a chainplate in will allow teh forestay to be adjusted. The pig tail is there as the jib can never go up all the way to the mast and the block / furling drum needs to placed a little away from the mast. May this is a good option on your boat to get the CE right ?


>>>I recently heard someone say that there aren't that many new Inter 17's, FXone's, or F16's being sold these days because many/most of the people buying a modern singlehanded catamaran are buying A Class cats, even if their interests are primarily recreational and not racing.

People say alot of things. A-cat class is doing great no doubt about that and that is good. However A-cats are not really outselling the F16's in the way it is presented. First I would like to add that we are a lot younger than the A's and that we don't have a "replacement" market yet. If a class has a few hundred boats sailing in the world than the class is bound to have a sizable turn-over due to replacing aging boats. It is not realistic to demand simular numbers of a much younger class with significantly less boats around the world. But more importantly the comment suggests that sales are dropping from levels in previous years; This is not correct. I can't speak for the FX-one and I-17R although I think the latter is doing well in the US as well but the F16 class is increasing the number of sales. Also the condition in the comment is not correct. "because many/most of the people buying a modern singlehanded catamaran are buying A Class cats" First all F16 secondhanders are scooped up within the month, this doesn't indicate declining interest to me. Currently we have a little supply side problem for the US. Secondly, our market share is far more based on the 1-up/2-up flexibility. Our builders reported that even singlehanded sailors buying one of these boats always buy the jib setup with it. I know of only one exception to this tendency. The main group interested in the F16 class are recreational sailors with kids or a want to occasionally take somebody else along AND the lighter weight racing crews. We started the class on the first group but lately we see the latter group becoming more and more important. People will blast me for this but I do see the F16 class taking increasing numbers of sailors from current lighter crews class like the Hobie 16 and Dart 18. And this is a completely different segment from what the A-cat does or even can cater for. The a-cat has pretty much achieved its penetration over the last (30) years and the F16 still has a huge potential before it. Therefor I don't really see the A-cat as competing for the same sailors and thus I think the comparison is off. Furthermore I would like to see a cooperation develop between the A-cats and F16 just the one developping between the F18 and F16 class. I think the boats are close enough in performance (without a kite) and it will be enjoyable for the both of us. I think that a combined little event is held in Florida this year. It think that is very cool. But I'm getting off topic.

In short ; F16 and A-cat are not competing for the same sailors and a large portion of the basis for F16 class is drawn from a different segment which the A-cat can not compete for. We are in general NOT seeing declining numbers or even a declining interest. I would argue the opposite on the mails I receive with questions on the boats.



>>>I did not include A Class in my original short list despite the fact that the low weight was very attractive because I thought it might be too fragile and not as well suited for recreational sailing as it is for racing.

I don't think A-cats are fragile. Of course, it is not a Hobie 16 or even an F16, but we shouldn't expect that of this class that is not her focus. But fragile ? No. Before the blasting starts on why I said "Or even an F16" let me explain this. More weight to go into reinforcements and smaller leverage dimensions and the fact it is designed for doublehanded racing makes the F16 stronger. This is not the same as saying the A-cat is fragile or not strong for it's intended use, but it does mean that I wouldn't want to take somebody along or double trapeze of it in 15 knots of wind. That was never the intend of the beast called A-cat. Personally I do think you stand a good chance to find a second hand A-cat for a normal budget. For the F16's you can forget about this; only buying new is your option now and the Dollar exchange rate doesn't help at this time. What is up with this dollar taking a freefall ? But then again all new A-cats have the same problem as they to come from non dollar companies. Now you understand why I really would like to see a US based F16 builder. Again I'm getting of topic.


>>>I had assumed A class sailing characteristics would be quite similar to the FXone/Fox due to what appears to be a similar hull shape.

No, no, don't make that assumption. The differences can actually be quite big. Even the difference between the FX-one and Fox are by some described to be very significant. Even between two A_cat wavepiercers the differences can be really noticable. Test sail each boat and base you decision on that. That is the only dependable way.


>>Is this fundamentally true or is it in fact a more demanding boat to master due to it's lighter weight, requirement for and responsiveness to tuning, and it's need for finnesse as your subsequent post suggests?

It is as simple as this :

-1- more tools = more experience required to tune it correctly
-2- less weight + more power = more skills required to make the boat behave as intended
-3- more low drag designs = more finnesse you need to develop to get the max out of the boat.

How can I explain this. By an example maybe. The speed of a low drag design (lightweight) is more determined by aerodynamic limits of a given rig setting. This means setting the right camber and sheeting angle of the rig. On a boat without these controls like a Prindle 16 there is not much you can do except concentrate on getting the windshifts and laylines right. On an A-cat and F16 a good crew will be able to get a few % more speed out of the conditions as well by being better at approximating the ideal camber sheeting angle combination. This may require the adjustment of the rig by anything from 2 to 5 controls. Some of these controls liek spreader rake need to be set before going out on the water. This requires experience to get it right. For recreational sailing this is not really important as going fast is going fast but in racing it does matter.

>>Anyway, thanks to you and everyone else for the great advice.

You're welcome.


Wouter

Wouter,

Once again, great post.

>>I trust that you'll put the boat over when you're one the wire and make a mistake ?

In a heartbeat. Since I'm early in my learning curve I've avoided swimming by not trapping on very gusty days.

>> Mainpoint to learn with trapezing off a cat or skiff is one needs to develop a feel to keep the boat stabil with steering and careful sheeting

This very thought occurred to me the first time I pushed off the side of the boat with the sheet in one hand and the tiller in the other! Actually, I found it reasonably manageable and tons of fun once I was out. The hardest part was getting out with the tiller in my back hand and the uncleated mainsheet in my front hand since there was no easy way to keep steering AND stabilize myself with my back hand (to get my rear leg out) as I pushed off with my front foot. I could do it without stabilizing with my back hand if the helm was reasonably balanced but it felt stange since there is a tendency to pivot aft until I could get my rear leg under me. Even harder to do with major weather helm (cat rigged). If there's an easier way to get out singlehanded with better control, I'd appreciate learning from you!

>> Actually you need to shorten the forestay when removing the jib.

I knew you'd catch that mistake when I re-read my post after submitting it (another brain meltdown...)! Originally when sailing sloop rigged I had too much lee helm. I looked into adding a shackle above the furling drum to fix that but it turned out that just retensioning my shrouds fixed the problem so I didn't have to. Your idea of adding a chainplate to the pigtail is great suggestion!

Finally, I thought your comments about A Class and F16 were very lucid, balanced, and well stated. I agree there is some overlap but they are different animals and I appreciate your clarifying that issue. I want to compliment you on the excellent job you did on your F16 web site formulating an exciting new class which appears to be very complimentary other existing classes.

Jerry

Jerry,

>>If there's an easier way to get out singlehanded with better control, I'd appreciate learning from you!

Do you have a cleat on your mainsheetblock ? I find it a great help to point a little to high then cleat the sheet to the right setting of a lower course. Than move he sheet to my aft hand with which I also hold the tiller. Than I use my fore arm and rear leg to get out while letting both the tiller and sheet slide gently through my hand. Sometime I tuck my rear hand next to my body before getting out and extend it while getting out. This often gives good control. Right after or during getting out I point a little lower and thus powerup the craft to keep me off the water. I have to do it without a cleat on the 49-er I skipper now and then but this is alot more difficult as the smallest variation in sheeting cause the boat to rock from side the side.


>>>Finally, I thought your comments ... were very lucid, balanced, and well stated. I want to compliment you on the excellent job you did ... formulating an exciting new class ... complimentary other existing classes.

Thank you very much for your complements Jerry. It was what we were aiming for; And I say "we" as Kirt Simmons (USA) and Phillip Brander (Aus) were part of it right from the start. Their contributions were invaluable ; I often stand in the lime light as chairman but as Newton said "... it was because I was standing on the shoulders of giants"

Wouter

When I had the same decision to make I went with the Hobie 17. I know it is obsolete but what makes it great is- it's a classic! MOre over, It is simple, easy, cheap and fast to set-up. Yeah, I race like once a year so the latest hip thing wasn't a concern. My main concern with a boat is how much $ to buy and run it. I'm sorry, I am not buying anything for $5k-$10k that doesn't have a motor on it! My point is- How much $ do you want to blow. And remember- the more $ a boat the more complex the system is. Do you want one hour set up, one hour take down? Do you want something you can leave on the beach for a couple days/weekend without it being swiped?

Wouter,

>> Do you have a cleat on your mainsheetblock ?

Yes I do. I didn't cleat it for two reasons: 1) I was sheeting in as I pushed off rather than changing my heading as a means to counterbalance, and 2) I was pushing off with my front foot rather than my back foot since the swinging moment on the wire is forward; since my front foot was stabilizing the forward side of my body I really didn't need my forward hand to hold the trap handle so sheeting in as I pushed off was not too difficult.

I'm under the impression that most people push off with their front leg? It's certainly an easy way to get out if your back hand is free to stabilize you. If I push off with my front foot, I only have two choices for my back hand: a) just hold the tiller and steer (requires I push off hard enough to temporarily overcome the tendency to "pivot" aft until I get my rear leg out - problem is balance is off temporarily; even trickier in waves), or b) hold the tiller extension between my rear thumb and forefinger as I rest my rear palm on the rail to stabilize me as I get my rear leg out (problem is that for a couple of seconds I'm not steering).

>> I find it a great help to point a little to high then cleat the sheet to the right setting of a lower course... Than I use my fore arm and rear leg to get out while letting both the tiller and sheet slide gently through my hand.

That's a very interesting idea; I hadn't thought of pushing off with my rear leg due to the tendency to swing forward. I'm assuming that you are not using the trap handle at all when when you push off (neither did I)? Does this approach work well for pushing out both beating and reaching? Would it work as well to just cleat and then fall off as you push out (or is it necessary to first undersheet and then head up)? It sounds like you have the option to keep the cleated mainsheet in your foreward hand with some extra slack (rather than transfer it to your aft hand)? I'm definitely going to have to try your approach! It will be interesting to see if it works as well on a monohull with a less powered rig.

>> I have to do it without a cleat on the 49-er I skipper now and then but this is alot more difficult as the smallest variation in sheeting cause the boat to rock from side the side.

And I bet if you do it in gusty weather with an unbalanced helm it would really be lots of fun!

Finally, in your last post you aslo mentioned that it would be nice if there was a US manufacturer for an F16 class boat. I have to agree! It's an attractive class and that would make it much easier for me and others to go the F16 route. Anything on the horizon for a US built F16 boat? Aslo, one of the compelling things about how you've formulated the F16 class (besides the versatility) is how in different configurations it can be raced against other classes on a non-handicapped basis (ie, F18 and A Class). Why were Inter-17 and FX-one not included?

Thanks again for the great advice,

Jerry

Wouter,


>>I'm under the impression that most people push off with their front leg?

That can be the case. I not sure if I actually push out with my front or rear leg or just swing it over the side sooner. I do push off with the fore hand that is for sure. I tuck one of my legs under me so my toes touch the side of the boat then I roll back out over this leg using my fore hand to stabilize myself and my rearhand to take the controls with me. I guess I then put my other leg against the side and compete push out with that while flipping my first leg from shin to hull towards sole to hull. I never use the trapeze handle, useless thing. Well only on long long upwind beats where I have nothing to do and rest me hand on it much like most rest their hand on the gear shift stick in the car on long straight legs.

But then again I'm talking cats and your are talking mono's. I do it completely different on a 49-er but these also have a different trap setup. Their you lower yourself from a near vertical to a horizontal position. That is a whole different approach.

I'm sorry but I think I will have to be there to really help you.


>>That's a very interesting idea; I hadn't thought of pushing off with my rear leg due to the tendency to swing forward.

That is why I use my free front hand.

>>I'm assuming that you are not using the trap handle at all when when you push off (neither did I)? Does this approach work well for pushing out both beating and reaching?

I do it the same on all courses. Main point is to get out quickly without upsetting the boat to much.


>>Would it work as well to just cleat and then fall off as you push out

That is what I do when conditions call for that. It is what you have to do on a 49-er (but without the cleat).

You know I think I can tell you quite a bit about how it is done on a 49-er and other boats but it is to much type work to write it all down. Mono's must also be steered differently from cats. I would like to propose that we discuss this interactively by phone if that is okay with you. I can explain alot more in a 30 min call than 30 days of writing. Would this be acceptable to you ?


>>(or is it necessary to first undersheet and then head up)?

No, no undersheeting.

>> It will be interesting to see if it works as well on a monohull with a less powered rig.

Trapezing is trapezing. If there is not enough to trapeze out than don't do it. It is a simple as that.


>>And I bet if you do it in gusty weather with an unbalanced helm it would really be lots of fun!

You don't know that halve of it. One time we capsized 30 times in 90 minutes sailing. At the end of the summer I could do 100 push ups straight. Sailing (and recovering from a capsize) a 49-er can be a great bodybuilding excersize.

>>>Finally, in your last post you aslo mentioned that it would be nice if there was a US manufacturer for an F16 class boat. I have to agree! It's an attractive class and that would make it much easier for me and others to go the F16 route. Anything on the horizon for a US built F16 boat?


Well, the important preconditions are in place. We have two designs that are available for license building, we have two design teams (of which one is world famous) that have indicated to be willing to design a completely new brand unique F16 and we have a deals on important parts like the mast sections. Both Stealth (carbon) and AHPC (superwing aluminium) have agreed to supply other F16 builders with their mast or gear at very attractive prices when requested.

I also think that there is a market for it in the USA. A market that doesn't underdo for say the hobie Tiger market.


>>>Aslo, one of the compelling things about how you've formulated the F16 class (besides the versatility) is how in different configurations it can be raced against other classes on a non-handicapped basis (ie, F18 and A Class). Why were Inter-17 and FX-one not included?


This is also largely because I wanted a platform like that for myself. It is turning out to be the best selling point in the inventory. It appears that the founders were not alone in this wish. With respect to the I-17 and FX-one, they are included as far as I'm concerned. The grandfather rule allows these designs to be included in the F16 format. This may be a bit tricky when we have our Global Challenge in the future as for example the I-17 will not allow us in at their nationals etc but otherwise ;"come along show what you've got and have fun". Personally I think it would be great fun to have a "one-up nationals" where all A-cats, F16, FX-one, Inter-17, Hobie 17 and nacra 5.5 unis compete for the title best singlehanded sailor. We hav such an event here in NL and it does attract all makes. Wouldn;t that be something ?

>>Thanks again for the great advice,

You're welcome

Ohh check your mailbox on this site for some extra info. (phone number etc)

Welcome

Hi Jerry - and Wouter,

Just thought I'd add my 2c to the trapezing discussion:

I came to cat sailing from a monohull background as well and the first cat that I sailed only had one trapeze for the crew so I was on the side hiking with the straps. Consequently I developed the habit of tacking/gybing and subconsiously putting my feet under the straps.

When I graduated to my Taipan 4.9 7 years ago it just seemed natural for me to jump out on the wire (trapeze) from an 'under the straps' position.

After hooking up, I sit my bum over the edge of the boat and my toes under the straps, then I bend one leg up so my foot is on the corner of the boat and then push myself out. If you do it quick enough (once you get used to it) your body moves out fast enough to take the slack in the trapeze system before it drops down.

It works quite well for me most of the time except my crew tends to use the footstrap as a foot blocker and pushes herself further up the boat and can sometimes push it off the end of my toes as I'm trying to get out.

I've been trying to remember how I use my legs and I think that I always leave my left under the straps and push out with my right - I'll try to remember to check when I sail tomorrow.

re mainsheet and tiller - Both stay in their respective hands (tiller in rear, sheet in front) and don't get cleated or anything.

Everybody has different physical abilities and lengths of limbs so the important thing is to find something that works for you. I had one crew who used to perch on the side of the boat like a frog before she went out on the wire but she could get out as quick as me so it didn't really matter what it looked like!

Good luck deciding on a boat - I'm sure you won't be dissapointed whichever way you go.