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New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help #274072
07/22/14 08:33 AM
07/22/14 08:33 AM
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thebigz Offline OP
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Here is my situation

I have little to no sailing experience (I've been out once or twice with a friend), but am a quick learner, so I'm not too worried about that.

We have a small lake here by my house (about 6 feet deep, 120ish acres) that I will do most of my sailing on.

I also live near the great salt lake in Utah and will go there a few times a month.

I am 6'4", 200 lbs, so I'm a decently big guy in good shape (I run marathons, so not big and bulky)

I want to be able to sail around and just enjoy being on the water, and I want to be able to sail with one hull in the water going fast (the small lake will be just for chilling, the great salt lake will be for speed/one hull stuff).

These are examples of what I'd like to do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc8GI6RR_f0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RtdKC3eCek

I will primarily sail alone, but want to have the capability to take my wife, neices/nephews, and other family members.

I've been watching the local classifieds for a hobie 16 for the last few months, but all the good ones get snapped up pretty quickly, so I still am empty handed.

Thinking more about a hobie 16, I've read you don't want to sail them with more than about 280 lbs, so me and a child. Maybe I should look for a bigger cat. My big thing with going bigger is that as I said I will be sailing alone quite a bit, so I don't want something too overwhelming. I also don't want to lose maneuverability and speed, and want to be able to go with one hull up in the air

Now I'm thinking maybe Nacra 5.8. Would I be able to handle it alone? I have a friend that will teach me to use it, so I'm not overly concerned about how hard it is while I'm still learning, and as I said, I hope to become an advanced beginner/intermediate pretty quickly (a couple months?)

What does everybody think?

Thank you

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Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274073
07/22/14 10:49 AM
07/22/14 10:49 AM
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Eastern NC, USA
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tshan Offline
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I'd look for something in the 17 or 18 foot range that doesn't have daggerboards (might work better on a shallow lake).

You might want to try to find a Nacra 5.7, 570 or 580. Prindle 18 might be a cheaper option. There are plenty of used boats out there.


Tom
Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274074
07/22/14 11:10 AM
07/22/14 11:10 AM

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MN3
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The problem is your a bigger guy, and that pretty much excludes the real small/light boats (14's & small 16's)

you might be able to solo a hobie or prindle 16 but having crew could be a bit much, and more challenging in light air....

having such a shallow bottom excludes daggers and even most centerboards so that makes this even smaller group for the "perfect boat".

I would add a dart 18 to the list above, but that is a high wind boat and doesn't love weight nor light air

Last edited by MN3; 07/22/14 11:14 AM.
Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274075
07/22/14 11:23 AM
07/22/14 11:23 AM
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thebigz Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies so far.

Are daggerboards retractable? When I'm on the small/shallow lake, I will not be doing any speed sailing (too small), so that will be pure cruising. Could I do something like the Nacra 5.8 with the daggerboards up then only use them on the great salt lake?

Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274076
07/22/14 11:32 AM
07/22/14 11:32 AM

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MN3
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Are daggerboards retractable?
they lift up, but the boat does not track (or tack) well without them (loses some ability to point towards the wind)

centerboards "retract" into the hulls (pivot upward and "hide" in the hulls) -

sailing with the boards down is really not a good option ... it will make tacking harder and sailing less efficient

it sounds like you need a prindle 16 for the lake and a 18' cat for the salt lake.

Last edited by MN3; 07/22/14 11:32 AM.
Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: ] #274077
07/22/14 11:38 AM
07/22/14 11:38 AM
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thebigz Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MN3
"hide" in the hulls)
it sounds like you need a prindle 16 for the lake and a 18' cat for the salt lake.


I was afraid the best option was going to be two boats. Since I'm just starting, there is no way I can justify two.

It makes sense, though, since they are two pretty different lakes.

Would it be possible to rig it and run with the boards partially retracted?

There is a pretty good looking Nacra 5.8 here locally, which is why I'm pushing more in that direction. I just don't want to get stuck with something that will be useless to me

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=21...&lpid=&search=nacra&ad_cid=1

Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274078
07/22/14 12:06 PM
07/22/14 12:06 PM
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Eastern NC, USA
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tshan Offline
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You can play sail with the dagger boards at 1/2 or 3/4 down (adjustable on the water), but they are really for optimizing performance - the dagger boards raised a bit sailing around the lake for fun probably won't make much difference. The N5.8 is a fun boat - powerful, carries weight well.


Tom
Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274079
07/22/14 12:10 PM
07/22/14 12:10 PM
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Eastern NC, USA
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tshan Offline
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That is a pretty old boat (looks good in the pictures), do you know anyone who can look at it with you? I am sure some folks around here can tell you some problem areas to look at. You may want to allot some money for some replacement parts.


Tom
Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: tshan] #274080
07/22/14 12:10 PM
07/22/14 12:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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isn't the water in the Great Salt lake denser than "ordinary" salt water? Could that result in greater bouyancy and therefore higher carrying capacity than "typical" figures passed around on various forums?

So perhaps a nice 16 footer could work in both his situations?


Jay

Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274081
07/22/14 12:26 PM
07/22/14 12:26 PM
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Sound to me like a Prindle 18 or an 18-2 would do the trick...

Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: Ventucky Red] #274082
07/22/14 01:50 PM
07/22/14 01:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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how about a getaway? Haven't seen one fly a hull though...


Jay

Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274090
07/22/14 06:36 PM
07/22/14 06:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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My thoughts are that the 5.8 in the link is at a pretty attractive price. However that is a pretty old boat 83-84? Its probably a solid glass model. It's mast would appear to be raked crazy far forward, see if you can test drive it. Its also NOT a 5.8NA that you may read about online.

How much wind are we talking about on average?

I'm thinking the 5.8 would be a handful solo, in breeze and especially on the beach.


Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274092
07/22/14 09:45 PM
07/22/14 09:45 PM
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thebigz Offline OP
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Just going off the weather report from today, which seemed pretty average in terms of wind.
http://ut.water.usgs.gov/greatsaltlake/marina/


Current wind: 10.8 mph
Gusts: 18.8
High (24 hrs): 30.8

Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274098
07/23/14 05:58 AM
07/23/14 05:58 AM
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brucat Offline
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Whatever you read about not sailing a Hobie 16 over 280 is garbage. If racing (which you didn't mention), minimum weight is 285, ideal weight is around 300 (+/- 15 or 20 depending on skill). Although rare, some folks have done well at significantly higher weight.

Sailing for fun has no such restriction. We commonly fun sail with three adults on Hobie 16s.

Having said that, the best way to quickly improve your sailing skills is to race and attend clinics. The best advice for that is to buy a boat with a large fleet nearby.

Hope this helps.

Mike

Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: brucat] #274104
07/23/14 03:39 PM
07/23/14 03:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 858
Victoria Australia
Pirate Offline
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Originally Posted by brucat
.... buy a boat with a large fleet nearby ....


this ..... wink

go to the areas you intend to sail at and find out what class is mainly sailed in the area, there will be reasons why a particular class of cat is favoured over others for its suitability.
find out those reasons and you'll have a better understanding of the areas sailing conditions


2ndly...
if you have issues with your new toy then the locals will have a good knowledge base with which they can assist you to fix your boat or style of sailing to better suit, if however you buy something that's not normally seen in the area then you'll find you'll be largely 'on your own' when it comes to issues.


finally ..... and something that few consider ....
resale of the boat once you decide to upgrade / move-on etc
You'll have more chance of selling a boat in an area where a "fleet" exists for the 2 above reasons, very few would take the risk of going to an entirely new class that's not well known in the area..... the exception is the newbie guy who'll be making the same mistake you did by buying the wrong class for the area

smile


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274106
07/23/14 04:23 PM
07/23/14 04:23 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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Sailing the Nacra 5.8 one up won't be the problem, righting it one up when you go over will be a problem, you can overcome that with a proper righting pole, not one that comes from under the mast step you need one that comes from inside the top hull as in Rick Whites righting pole he sells on this site and it will be a long one. When you sail in the ocean and go over generally there are waves coming past that help lift the mast and start the righting process, on a lake with two ft chop it is harder, if it's light wind even harder. To start sailing a Nacra 5.8 solo, that advertised boat is a good option as it has the small jib, tie your sail battens in loose with a wrinkle, then pull the downhaul on really hard (the main sail is made to stretch and a good crew can pull the bottom of that old sail out of the bottom of the mast) so the sail also stretches out over the battens and goes as flat as possible. Sail with your boards quarter to half down and it will steer fine. If it's light wind the Nacra will steer OK with six inches boards down. The Nacra 5.8 has no boom so if you get in trouble and let your main sail off too far it just bags up a bit and is more likely to help tip you over, you need to try and keep the jib and main sail on hard while learning and just steer up into the wind as each bigger puff comes, set your cleat so that you can only cleat it if you pull the main sheet up high so you can cleat when you do your jib while on the tramp but at all other times you don't have it cleated. Over 12 knots plus gusts you must get on the wire or it will be a busy ride. The big advantage that old Nacra has is it's heavy so it handles some of the gusts for you and gives you time to react, on smaller boats you need to balance the boat by your position, a Hobie 16 is a good example I'm not bagging them but in a puff too much weight back you go over backwards, too much forward and you go over forward on that Nacra sit where you like unless your going flat out the only way you will go over is sideways. When you take out inexperienced people you have a crew so the 5.8 will be easy to right easy to sail, tip the boat over in the shallows and right it with them so your all confident and when the boats going over tell your crew to grab a rope as they slide down the tramp, never climb to the high side when it's definately going over or you will put your mast into the mud, get everyone to keep their legs together as you go in the water, getting a leg either side of a side stay can be uncomfortable for a long time
I wouldn't worry about having the same cat as the others too much, as long as you get a cat that still has new part supplies you will be fine, Nacra has all the parts a phone call away and any tuning help you need can be sorted with a post on this forum

Last edited by JeffS; 07/23/14 05:14 PM.

Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: New to sailing, buying a cat. Need help [Re: thebigz] #274109
07/23/14 05:17 PM
07/23/14 05:17 PM
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brucat Offline
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Good advice above.

One other thing comes to mind: practice capsizing and righting the boat. Practice that a lot, it takes away a lot of anxiety when you know that you know how to right the boat, and have practiced. Especially if you can learn from experienced people willing to go out with you and show you the ropes (our Hobie fleet does this).

Also, don't even think about sailing in heavy air until you've mastered the boat in light and moderate breeze.

These are things that I wish I had done myself when I started out...

Mike

BTW: The only way I've seen a H16 go over backwards is when tacking in heavy air (over 20 knots), and not having enough weight forward, usually compounded by not releasing one of the sails from the cleat (the jib will also cause you to capsize, on any boat).

Last edited by brucat; 07/23/14 05:20 PM.

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