Fair to punish kids for coach stupidity? I think coaches--and their all-too-frequently-murderous coach boats--should be banned from the race course. Mandate adequate rescue boats provided by RC.

http://www.sailing.org/Article_content.asp?ArticleID=6088

High Drama At The Optimist Asians

In a dramatic development last night, fifteen sailors were disqualified from the first race, including the entire Singaporean and Indonesian fleets.

There was high drama at Training Ship Jawahar, last evening at the conclusion of the first 2 races of the Individual Championship.

The crux of the issue was that 15 boats had left the jetty before the cautionary flag DELTA had been hoisted. This is a cautionary flag signal that is raised when the race officer feels that adequate safety support is available on the water and that the weather conditions are safe for the fleet to launch.

When word spread through the fleet about this infraction of the rules the Indonesian team manager tried to rectify matters for his team by physically towing their boats at high speed, back to the jetty for re-launch! However this did not amount to a rectification of the rule infringement as per the Sailing Instructions and after some deliberation the International Jury took the decision to disqualify all 15 boats that had broken this rule.

This mass disqualification drastically affected the front end of the fleet as both the Malaysian and Singapore teams who have dominated proceedings so far saw almost all their sailors disqualified.

The dejected faces of the young sailors who had sailed so hard and so well only to see a top 10 finish turn to a DSQ, was heartbreaking to watch but then as a member of the Organising Committee pointed out "This is an international championship, not a club race and competitors and coaches at this level are expected to know the rules and follow them to the letter."

Hard on children? Better that they learn now than at some future Olympics – and that rules are there for a reason and to be respected.

Hopefully this experience, will serve to make the whole fleet more aware of rule infringements and if it does, it would have served a very positive purpose. Strict adherence to the rules is imperative in a sport like sailing where safety is an issue and especially here were children are out at sea alone, in a large fleet.

I hope the race officials made all of the kids pee in a cup, too. Or do they take Jugular vein blood samples? Faschists abound- Sheesh!

In Sarasota they had us cats on the course with 420s. The parent boats would often park in front of our start and perenially get in the way, putting themselves and the 4-5 boats rafted up to them in danger, especially when we're hauling DW with the chute up. I don't think they should be banned or anything, but there should be an area for them to stay in off the course. They should leave the area during any race and when the first 5 min gun sounds. They just have too much of a knack for hanging in the starting area. It's probably only a problem in mixed fleets though.

I liked the one "mom" boat who towed her "kids" (about 2-3 boats) into the starting box when the sequence started. I was starting to think she would tow them all the way to the start line!

That's just getting goofy. How far from the shore are these races?

Been sailing since I was 12 and I have been towed 3 times. Once when I was 14 when the wind died on us in the middel of a big lake and at 09:00 PM we were still there; we were mighty happy to encounter the other boat on the lake. Once in Greece when the wind died and we had to cover another 6 km on a skiff in swell (I was sick as I don't know what) Second time was at Springfever 2002 second day (NO wind to get the the start line).

And I was ashamed at ALL times for getting a tow. A good skipper doesn't get caught in a situation he can't get himself out of.

But Times have changed I see.

Wouter

Maybe I'll develop an all carbon paddle wheel system that we can clamp to our beams...yeah...that's it!

I have been caught out one evening with no wind and tragedy striked. I was bobbing in the bay with no light...well u dont expect to be caught out. My hobie 16 run over by the water bus full sails up (main and jib). It wrote off the boat and almost me. I was off work for a month. The paddle idea is not as silly as it sounds. Also sailing with other people is a good idea!

Somehow the train got off the track in this thread. I would like to respond to the original post, which I think posed a very interesting question: "Fair to punish kids for coach stupidity?"

"Slow but Clueless," who made the original post, obviously thinks it is NOT fair. The author of the article that was reprinted in the post thinks it IS fair. And DACarls obviously thinks it is NOT fair.

I'm going to even out the votes on this and say that I think it IS fair. It is the only decision the jury could possibly have made.

You guys who think the decision was not fair, would you think differently if the competitors had been adults? If you DO think it would be fair if the competitors were adults, why do you think it's not fair when the competitors are children?

Mary,

The rules allow punishing the competitor for rules broken by the coach. This should be enough to close the issue.

The second relevant question is: how fair is the rule?
It is more then fair, it is essential. Without this rule, nothing would prevent a coach from simply blocking the way of other competitors. I've seen it actually happen (Optimist - the most aggressive class in the world)

Last thought: the coach may order whatever he wants but the skipper decides what to do in his boat - kid or grownup. The skipper is punished for HIS final decision.

Best regards,

Re Optimist Coach leaving the dock early-- Can anyone determine the difference between an inadvertant error and a deliberate infraction? If this is a deliberate ploy often repeated, that is one thing. If inadvertant that is another.
We are still supposed to be "Good Sports" in this recreational activity. Does anyone remember "Sportsmanship" and "Corinthian Ideal?" Sailing is not yet reduced to the level of professional wrestling or basketball--not yet. I have seen signs of this reduction sometimes tho.
Signed Opinionated Curmudgeon.

Mary,

No disagreement that the ruling complied with the rules. Also perhaps fair, if the kids first sailed from the dock of their own free will, independantly exercised poor judgement, and were truly responsible for breaking the rule--designed to protect them from their own immaturity and hence inability to judge safety for themselves. But what if a bunch of 11-year-olds were pushed off by parents and coaches? Is it reasonable to expect a child under those circumstances to "choose" to say no? The article is somewhat ambiguous on that detail.

I simply objected to the righteous tone of the piece that this was an important life lesson deservedly learned through severe punishment resulting in heartbreak; adults control and are responsible for every other aspect of the regatta (and parents no doubt derive great secondary gratification from their kids' success), so it seemed that there could have been more done to prevent or remedy the situation other than ruining the regatta for 15 youngsters.

The situation is very much different for kids under the absolute stewardship, supervision and influence of legal guardian adults, and adult competitors who are obviously sportingly and legally responsible and liable for their own actions.

Aha! That is exactly the argument I was hoping somebody would put forth. Children look up to their parents, their teachers, their coaches as mentors. They trust the adults to give them the correct advice. When the coach tells his team to leave the beach, why would children feel that they have the right to refuse? Why would it even occur to them to question an order from their coach?

So, was it fair?

I think the ruling is a tough one but that it was fair. If we applied the same "not capable of making the correct decision - it wasn't their fault" logic to other situations the outcome might be easily debatable the other way (drunk driving, habitual drug use, etc.). Also to coin the phrase my parents seemed to repeat to me a lot as a kid; "if your friend jumped off a bridge would you follow?". Regardless, the coach is a participant in the event - or at least they can easily be considered a member of the team and the team should receive penalties for rule infractions. The order of the RC to remain on shore was an important one for safety, liability, and organization. Whether or not the teams were aware of it, the proper signals were present and this order was not followed. What if I drove my car through a stop sign because I thought the white border meant it was optional? Not knowing the rules is no excuse – it should be embarrassing to these coaches.

It is very disappointing for the kids but I side with the RC.