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Steeplechase Results #276800
12/23/14 09:03 AM
12/23/14 09:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
I want to apologize for two things: 1. The delay in posting the results (due to my haste to catch a plane to Utah for skiing) 2. Worse, I cheated Ricky out of third place because I can't read numbers. So, Jared, please forward Todd Riccardi his trophies. (In my defense, if there is any, the software would not score the results properly, so I was doing it by hand, the old fashioned way, with wind blowing result pages all over the beach). At any rate, here they are Sailwave results for 30th Annual Key Largo Steeplechase at Islander Resort 2014

30th Annual Key Largo Steeplechase

Islander Resort

Overall

Sailed: 3, Discards: 2, To count: 1, Rating system: USPN, Entries: 12, Scoring system: Appendix A
Rank Class SailNo HelmName CrewName USPN Leg 1   Leg 2   Overall   Total Nett
1st Marstrom 20 USA1 Brett Moss Kenny Pierce 58 (1.0) (1.0) 1.0 3.0 1.0
2nd Marstrom 20 USA Mike Phillips Raul Lopez 58 (2.0) (5.0) 2.0 9.0 2.0
3rd F18 316 Todd Riccardi Matt Keenan 62.4 (3.0) (4.0) 3.0 10.0 3.0
4th N20 Royal Orange Jared Sonnenklar Colin Page 59.3 (6.0) (3.0) 4.0 13.0 4.0
5th F18 880 Jake Kohl Frank Moore 62.4 (5.0) (8.0) 5.0 18.0 5.0
6th ARC 22 2230 Eric Roberts Dave Weir 57 (8.0) (2.0) 6.0 16.0 6.0
7th F18 242 Laura Muma David Ingram 62.4 (4.0) (9.0) 7.0 20.0 7.0
8th N20 Royal Yellow Steve Lohmayer Jay Sonnenklar 59.3 (7.0) (6.0) 8.0 21.0 8.0
9th F18 712 Dick MacDonald Matt Darrago 62.4 (9.0) (12.0) 9.0 30.0 9.0
10th G Cat 20 777 Ralph Cole Hans Geisler 65 (10.0) (7.0) 10.0 27.0 10.0
11th F18 NED Jacob Keilman Grace Chen 62.4 (11.0) (10.0) 11.0 32.0 11.0
12th N20 632 Jocelyn Henderson John Peil 59.3 (12.0) (11.0) 12.0 35.0 12.0

Leg 1

Start: Start 1, Finishes: Finish time, Time: 09:00:00
Rank Class SailNo HelmName CrewName USPN Start Finish Elapsed Laps Corrected Points
1 Marstrom 20 USA1 Brett Moss Kenny Pierce 58 09:00:00 13:59:43 4:59:43   8:36:45 1.0
2 Marstrom 20 USA Mike Phillips Raul Lopez 58 09:00:00 14:03:39 5:03:39   8:43:32 2.0
3 F18 316 Todd Riccardi Matt Keenan 62.4 09:00:00 14:37:15 5:37:15   9:00:28 3.0
4 F18 242 Laura Muma David Ingram 62.4 09:00:00 14:39:04 5:39:04   9:03:23 4.0
5 F18 880 Jake Kohl Frank Moore 62.4 09:00:00 14:41:39 5:41:39   9:07:31 5.0
6 N20 Royal Orange Jared Sonnenklar Colin Page 59.3 09:00:00 14:31:51 5:31:51   9:19:37 6.0
7 N20 Royal Yellow Steve Lohmayer Jay Sonnenklar 59.3 09:00:00 14:36:36 5:36:36   9:27:37 7.0
8 ARC 22 2230 Eric Roberts Dave Weir 57 09:00:00 14:34:27 5:34:27   9:46:45 8.0
9 F18 712 Dick MacDonald Matt Darrago 62.4 09:00:00 15:15:23 6:15:23   10:01:35 9.0
10 G Cat 20 777 Ralph Cole Hans Geisler 65 09:00:00 15:45:57 6:45:57   10:24:32 10.0
11 F18 NED Jacob Keilman Grace Chen 62.4 09:00:00 15:46:44 6:46:44   10:51:49 11.0
12 N20 632 Jocelyn Henderson John Peil 59.3 09:00:00 15:47:59 6:47:59   11:28:00 12.0

Leg 2

Start: Start 2, Finishes: Finish time, Time: 09:00:00
Rank Class SailNo HelmName CrewName USPN Start Finish Elapsed Laps Corrected Points
1 Marstrom 20 USA1 Brett Moss Kenny Pierce 58 09:00:00 11:39:31 2:39:31   4:35:02 1.0
2 ARC 22 2230 Eric Roberts Dave Weir 57 09:00:00 11:42:58 2:42:58   4:45:54 2.0
3 N20 Royal Orange Jared Sonnenklar Colin Page 59.3 09:00:00 11:51:23 2:51:23   4:49:01 3.0
4 F18 316 Todd Riccardi Matt Keenan 62.4 09:00:00 12:05:58 3:05:58   4:58:01 4.0
5 Marstrom 20 USA Mike Phillips Raul Lopez 58 09:00:00 11:54:23 2:54:23   5:00:40 5.0
6 N20 Royal Yellow Steve Lohmayer Jay Sonnenklar 59.3 09:00:00 12:01:55 3:01:55   5:06:46 6.0
7 G Cat 20 777 Ralph Cole Hans Geisler 65 09:00:00 12:29:25 3:29:25   5:22:11 7.0
8 F18 880 Jake Kohl Frank Moore 62.4 09:00:00 12:22:37 3:22:37   5:24:42 8.0
9 F18 242 Laura Muma David Ingram 62.4 09:00:00 12:26:33 3:26:33   5:31:01 9.0
10 F18 NED Jacob Keilman Grace Chen 62.4 09:00:00 12:27:04 3:27:04   5:31:50 10.0
11 N20 632 Jocelyn Henderson John Peil 59.3 09:00:00 12:19:14 3:19:14   5:35:59 11.0
12 F18 712 Dick MacDonald Matt Darrago 62.4 09:00:00 12:32:46 3:32:46   5:40:58 12.0

Overall

Start: Start 1, Finishes: Place
Rank Class SailNo HelmName CrewName USPN Start Finish Elapsed Laps Corrected Points
1 Marstrom 20 USA1 Brett Moss Kenny Pierce 58     7:39:14   13:11:47 1.0
2 Marstrom 20 USA Mike Phillips Raul Lopez 58     7:58:02   13:44:12 2.0
3 F18 316 Todd Riccardi Matt Keenan 62.4     8:43:13   13:58:29 3.0
4 N20 Royal Orange Jared Sonnenklar Colin Page 59.3     8:23:14   14:08:37 4.0
5 F18 880 Jake Kohl Frank Moore 62.4     9:04:16   14:32:13 5.0
6 ARC 22 2230 Eric Roberts Dave Weir 57     8:17:25   14:32:40 6.0
7 F18 242 Laura Muma David Ingram 62.4     9:05:37   14:34:23 7.0
8 N20 Royal Yellow Steve Lohmayer Jay Sonnenklar 59.3     8:38:31   14:34:24 8.0
9 F18 712 Dick MacDonald Matt Darrago 62.4     9:48:09   15:42:33 9.0
10 G Cat 20 777 Ralph Cole Hans Geisler 65     10:15:22   15:46:43 10.0
11 F18 NED Jacob Keilman Grace Chen 62.4     10:13:48   16:23:39 11.0
12 N20 632 Jocelyn Henderson John Peil 59.3     10:07:13   17:03:58 12.0

Catsailor.com
Rick@catsailor.com

OnLineMarineStore.com
rick@catsailor.com

Sailwave Scoring Software 2.8.5
www.sailwave.com



Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Steeplechase Results [Re: RickWhite] #276804
12/23/14 02:25 PM
12/23/14 02:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 186
wildtsail7 Offline
member
wildtsail7  Offline
member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 186
Thanks Rick! I'm amazed how fast the Marstroms went after the wind started to drop a bit on day 1.
We were maybe only about 10 minutes behind Brett until a few miles south of Anglefish and ahead of Mike until then. But when the wind dropped into the low teens they just turned on the afterburners, Mike especially who used some of the dying pressure ahead to catch way up to Brett.
Without opening up a can of worms. How does everyone feel about the ratings in this particular race? The n20 was definitely a bit faster downwind in the lighter conditions both days. Upwind in breeze we were faster but they were slightly faster on day two in the lighter stuff upwind.
I'd say the n20 rating should be closer to the F18 and the m20 should be dropped a bit.

Last edited by wildtsail7; 12/23/14 02:26 PM.
Re: Steeplechase Results [Re: wildtsail7] #276809
12/23/14 09:08 PM
12/23/14 09:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by wildtsail7

Without opening up a can of worms. How does everyone feel about the ratings in this particular race? The n20 was definitely a bit faster downwind in the lighter conditions both days. Upwind in breeze we were faster but they were slightly faster on day two in the lighter stuff upwind.
I'd say the n20 rating should be closer to the F18 and the m20 should be dropped a bit.


The issue with updating DPN is getting enough statistical data to support a change. To complicate the issue further distance race data is excluded. Since getting supporting data is a dead end we pretty much have what we have for the foreseeable future. We always have the option to use SCHRS or Texel. At the end of the day handicap is flawed and hugely imperfect regardless the system that is used. Someone made a very good point about handicap racing recently in another thread... handicap racing a way for all us to get together on and off the water, take for what it is and don't take it too seriously.

I'm done going down this rabbit hole, but I could be talked into a good old fashion **** fight... well until I get bored with it anyway. A good opener would be... the Alter Cup should be a DPN Championship.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Steeplechase Results [Re: RickWhite] #276813
12/24/14 10:32 AM
12/24/14 10:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
old hand
mikekrantz  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
DPN handicap racing??? Next thing you know, you'll allow paddles and shortcuts on the race course...

Re: Steeplechase Results [Re: mikekrantz] #276821
12/26/14 09:52 AM
12/26/14 09:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by mikekrantz
DPN handicap racing??? Next thing you know, you'll allow paddles and shortcuts on the race course...


That's crazy talk Mike!


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Steeplechase Results [Re: David Ingram] #276822
12/26/14 07:06 PM
12/26/14 07:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
addict
sail7seas  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
Why does the Marstrom 20 keep the same rating with curved blades?
(they would have gone back to their straight blades if it was slower?)

Re: Steeplechase Results [Re: sail7seas] #276823
12/27/14 11:20 AM
12/27/14 11:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by sail7seas
Why does the Marstrom 20 keep the same rating with curved blades?
(they would have gone back to their straight blades if it was slower?)


Legitimate point but a similar point can be made regarding the F18, F16 and N20. Both the F16 and F18 have had major changes with daggerboard design. The N20 has gone to an open sail plan and totally different mast. The only class that can point fingers and bitch about numbers is the H16 IMO.

There really is no point in complaining about DPN numbers when there is absolutely no way to address the issue (see previous post). Yes I have approached the DPN committee with a request to review the numbers and a method to do it but unfortunately it was a non starter. So... until the DPN committee is willing to think outside the box DPN is what it is. And again, we always have the option to use SCHRS and/or Texel, Sailwave supports both systems.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Steeplechase Results [Re: RickWhite] #276825
12/28/14 03:37 PM
12/28/14 03:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Dave's assessment is just about spot on.

As to the M20 curved boards, it's my understanding that they are allowed as part of the class rules, so no adjustment factor was made. There may be more to it, I'd have to dig.

Mike


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