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Re: Loos gauge [Re: Arjan13] #277044
01/15/15 10:38 AM
01/15/15 10:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 382
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
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rehmbo  Offline
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SE MI / NE IN
Has anyone actually folded a mast on an F16 or F18? I know lots of people worry, but wondering whether its just paranoia or sometimes it actually happens.


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Loos gauge [Re: rehmbo] #277047
01/15/15 11:28 AM
01/15/15 11:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I've seen some of the first Infusions make really elongated tacos out of their masts. I'm not sure what the cause for that was. I sure have put mine through it's paces at times.

Crew on the wire, spin up, "Is the mast supposed to look like that?"
Me, driving, trying to do the math on how we can keep the kite up all the way up to the finish line, traveler nearly bottomed out, main twisted off as much as I possibly dare (a ton), head swiveling up and down to use the brim of my hat to fend the spray from the bows off my face, "We're flying and destroying the fleet...I'm not looking up, just so you know".


Jake Kohl
Re: Loos gauge [Re: rehmbo] #277050
01/15/15 01:06 PM
01/15/15 01:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by rehmbo
Has anyone actually folded a mast on an F16 or F18? I know lots of people worry, but wondering whether its just paranoia or sometimes it actually happens.


I haven't broken one, I've bent an F16 mast from a diamond wire failure though. It happened right at the bottom mark. We both hopped on the wire, sheeted hard, then POP. Immediately off the trapeze and back on the boat. So I'm almost certain it would've folded if we had been going down wind, or had not immediately gotten of the wire.
The Goodall wing mast that is on the Viper, and Falcon F16 is really soft. Which is perfectly fine and awesome if you use it correctly. But when someone turns the corner, the mast is rotated back, and the downhaul is on, with crew on the wire, its f-ing freaky looking.

I've seen a C2 mast do some really scary stuff when the other Karl and I were reaching hard to the finish at Steeplechase the second day with the kite up, double trapped and I failed to release the mast rotation. It was ugly. To be fair, it was kite up, kite down, kite up, kite down, kite up, kite down, trying to hold an angle. I'm scrawny, easily winded, and forgetful.

Last edited by Karl_Brogger; 01/15/15 01:09 PM.

I'm boatless.
Re: Loos gauge [Re: rehmbo] #277051
01/15/15 01:33 PM
01/15/15 01:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by rehmbo
Has anyone actually folded a mast on an F16 or F18? I know lots of people worry, but wondering whether its just paranoia or sometimes it actually happens.


It's been done many times on both.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Loos gauge [Re: rehmbo] #277052
01/15/15 02:45 PM
01/15/15 02:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
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On the Water
Originally Posted by rehmbo
Has anyone actually folded a mast on an F16 or F18? I know lots of people worry, but wondering whether its just paranoia or sometimes it actually happens.


Oh yeah


Philip
USA #1006
Re: Loos gauge [Re: Arjan13] #277054
01/15/15 05:10 PM
01/15/15 05:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Northfield Mn
I think there was a number of Viper masts at that Alter Cup that broke. It was nuking if I remember correctly.

Taylor and Mathew broke a F18 mast at Hyannis, I don't remember how or why.


I'm boatless.
Re: Loos gauge [Re: Arjan13] #277055
01/15/15 06:16 PM
01/15/15 06:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 382
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
enthusiast
rehmbo  Offline
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Posts: 382
SE MI / NE IN
Clearly I had a naive question. I've been petty careful , but did forget to release rotation on a breezy 15+ downhill leg. The picture I saw the next day scared the heck out of me.

That being said, the 4 short years I've been sailing these boats I've never seen it happen.


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Loos gauge [Re: Karl_Brogger] #277056
01/15/15 06:36 PM
01/15/15 06:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
I think there was a number of Viper masts at that Alter Cup that broke. It was nuking if I remember correctly.

Taylor and Mathew broke a F18 mast at Hyannis, I don't remember how or why.


There wasn't many broken masts in that 2009 Alter Cup. I competed in that event and it was pretty mild weather for most of it.


Jake Kohl
Re: Loos gauge [Re: Jake] #277057
01/15/15 08:33 PM
01/15/15 08:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
I think there was a number of Viper masts at that Alter Cup that broke. It was nuking if I remember correctly.

Taylor and Mathew broke a F18 mast at Hyannis, I don't remember how or why.


There wasn't many broken masts in that 2009 Alter Cup. I competed in that event and it was pretty mild weather for most of it.


Just one I think. It was Mike and Tripp, the diamond came off the spreader and they didn't see it, at least that was the theory.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Loos gauge [Re: Arjan13] #277058
01/15/15 08:48 PM
01/15/15 08:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
I'm thinking of the global challenge which was about the same time then. I remember there being lots of carnage.


I'm boatless.
Re: Loos gauge [Re: stampede] #277064
01/16/15 03:06 AM
01/16/15 03:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 97
The Netherlands
Arjan13 Offline OP
journeyman
Arjan13  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 97
The Netherlands
Originally Posted by stampede
Arjan,
in case you bought the loos gauge pictured/posted above, 38 is the medium setting for nacra F18. Max is 42. The prebend of your mast must be inline with the cut of your mainsail (luffcurve matches prebend). If you crank the stays hard, the mast gets stiffer in the lower section and the top is more flexble and vice versa. Andrew Landenberger has some tuning tips for A-cat on his homepage. I found it very helpful to better understand the physics behind. Most People overestimate influence of stay's tension compared to correct use of mast-rotation and cunningham.


Thanks, that is at least giving me an idea about if we're heading in the right direction...

Re: Loos gauge [Re: David Ingram] #277069
01/16/15 08:34 AM
01/16/15 08:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
I think there was a number of Viper masts at that Alter Cup that broke. It was nuking if I remember correctly.

Taylor and Mathew broke a F18 mast at Hyannis, I don't remember how or why.


There wasn't many broken masts in that 2009 Alter Cup. I competed in that event and it was pretty mild weather for most of it.


Just one I think. It was Mike and Tripp, the diamond came off the spreader and they didn't see it, at least that was the theory.


Aaaa - yes...I remember that being the case.


Jake Kohl
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