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Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: self_inflicted] #279374
06/06/15 05:41 AM
06/06/15 05:41 AM
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phill Offline OP
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"What happened to the 6ft swim suit model, That i hired to hold them for you smile smile ?"

Hey Richard,

Are you sure that you sent that model to my place? Didn't get the directions confused with your abode?

Here are a couple more pics.
I trial fitted the board in the case before fitting the case to the hull but just wanted to double check
to make sure the case remained straight and true after fitting.

You will note that this is going to draw quite a lot with this board down.
[Linked Image]

Here is a pic from the stern with the board all the way up.
[Linked Image]

I was quite surprised at how long it took to cut the foil shape in the keel.
But that is OK as it all fits with just the right amount of clearance to ensure trouble free operation.
[Linked Image]

Attached Files
DB down.jpg (1279 downloads)
db up.jpg (900 downloads)
slot.jpg (925 downloads)
Last edited by phill; 06/06/15 05:52 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

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Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #279376
06/06/15 03:17 PM
06/06/15 03:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 94
australia
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self_inflicted Offline
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Hi Phill, That is going to draw a bit of water, No she didn't come here. Someone has got a nice surprise smile

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: self_inflicted] #279509
06/18/15 03:05 AM
06/18/15 03:05 AM
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phill Offline OP
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I got to thinking that painting the cabin roof and sides would be easier with the hull upside down.
I also figured installing the mast compression post and all the carbon would be easier as well as the D/B control.
So here are a couple pics.
[Linked Image]

The mast compression work can be seen as well as the start of the up/down lines for the D/B.That is some plastic tubing with a line inside.
The line is in plastic to make sure I don't accidentally glue the line in when the cover is glued on.
I will use it to pull the up/down lines through later.

[Linked Image]

I made the cover big in the hope that I can get my hand in to re thread the lines from an inspection hatch in the deck.
I preferred this to an inspection port inside the cabin, although one can still be fitted if my plan does not work.

Attached Files
DB control.jpg (810 downloads)
DB control cover.jpg (773 downloads)
Last edited by phill; 06/18/15 03:12 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #279510
06/18/15 04:16 AM
06/18/15 04:16 AM
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phill Offline OP
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I've done all the fairing that is needed to paint the cabin top inside gunwale to gunwale and it took less than 500gms of resin.
The foam is so straight I just had to fair in the tapes and the companionway. I was expecting have to use a lot more resin but my system of taping has worked a treat.
All 100mm tapes have 150mm of peel ply over them. When the peel ply was removed I went over the edge of the tapes with a scraper with sharp tungsten blade feathering just the ends. Put the faiing compound on with a spring steel fairing knife and scraped most of it off at the same time. This just leaves the hollows filled. Once cured I went over the tapes again with the tungsten bladed scraper, you can see the shavings as I haven't vacuumed yet.I may light sand so the paint has a key but that is all. I can currently see where the tapes are but I can't feel them. Can't feel so once painted won't see.
If the weather is OK tomorrow I'll start painting.
Here are pics.

[Linked Image]



Looking aft in the cabin.
If this thing ever flips I want the top seat.

[Linked Image]

Attached Files
cockpit unside down.jpg (764 downloads)
inside fairing.jpg (811 downloads)
Last edited by phill; 06/18/15 04:25 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #279777
07/06/15 09:07 PM
07/06/15 09:07 PM
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phill Offline OP
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Several days ago I made up some non structural panels to go in as dividers beneath the settees.
I used 8mm M80 core cell foam and 200gm glass. Up until now all panels have been made under vacuum but thought I'd do these without.
The reasoning is that temps are running around 10deg and even below over night and the vacuum would need to be applied for nearly a full day
and the panels were just dividers and non structural.
I weighed out the resin to give a 50/50 resin glass ratio and applied with a roller.
Followed this with peel ply etc and put between to panes of plate glass with 3 layers of bricks on top.
Once fully cure the laminate just peeled off the foam as I took the peel ply off.
This is in stark contrast to when I have separate foam from laminate (to put in HD core) in panels made under vacuum.
Then I have had to resorts to a hammer and very sharp chisel to get the M80 foam out to put HD in.
Needless to say I ditched the panels and went back to the vacuum method that has served me so well up until now.

I am so glad that I have used vacuum on the hulls, bulkheads and all other panels on the boat.
This little experiment has convinced me that the added expense and increase in time it takes is worth using a vacuum.
(Although I think had I primed the foam with resin before the galss was added and/or been warmer it would have made it less likely to delaminate so easily.)

BTW:-
Had I wanted to get the same pressure as a vacuum by putting bricks on top I'd need the bricks to be something like 30ft high.
Quite surprising how much pressure the vacuum applies.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #279779
07/06/15 10:26 PM
07/06/15 10:26 PM

S
Scarecrow
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Originally Posted by phill

I weighed out the resin to give a 50/50 resin glass ratio and applied with a roller.
Followed this with peel ply etc and put between to panes of plate glass with 3 layers of bricks on top.
Once fully cure the laminate just peeled off the foam as I took the peel ply off.

(Although I think had I primed the foam with resin before the galss was added and/or been warmer it would have made it less likely to delaminate so easily.)



Not really hard to see the problem here in hind sight Phill.

you mixed 50:50 resin.

Lost 10-20% of that into the peel ply
another 10-20% into the foam.

That left you with a resin:cloth ratio of about 30:70.

Last edited by Scarecrow; 07/06/15 10:29 PM.
Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: ] #279783
07/07/15 04:56 AM
07/07/15 04:56 AM
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phill Offline OP
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Scarecrow,
You have a good point.
The peel ply that I'm using absorbs 40gm per sq metre.
Weighing the glass that came off reveals it only has a 30% resin content.
An interesting point about foam. I have a small quantity of foam other than the Core cell and it absorbs quite a lot more resin.
So I find the final weight of a structure will depend on the brand of foam used as well as the type of resin used in addition to the designed laminate.
Even diff between using fast and slow hardener of the same manufacturer. I find it strange that a comparison has not been properly documented on the net somewhere.
Best bet as far as resin goes is to go off the data sheets regarding viscosity. No doco that I know of regarding the foam.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #279806
07/07/15 04:30 PM
07/07/15 04:30 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



I've got some data on it I'll dig up when I finish building/moving into the new office. When building cored structures out of pre-preg you always use a resin film between the laminate and the core, so you don't wick all the resin out of the inner layers.

If you read the "gumf" from most of the foam suppliers they make a big deal about reduced resin absorption, particularly with new products.

If you're really interested talk to the guys at Gurit I'm sure they'll be able to point you in the right direction.

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: ] #279809
07/07/15 08:25 PM
07/07/15 08:25 PM
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phill Offline OP
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Reliable info on resin absorption by the foam at the beginning of the project would have been handy and of considerable interest
given I have weighed everything going in and coming out.
As I bought the foam and resin from Gurit I phoned them up before I started the project and one of the questions I asked
was how much resin I should allow for absorption into the foam. The answer provided was 250gm per sq metre.
They qualified this figure with saying that is what they advise people doing resin infusion and could give me no other info on the subject.
I proved on the first laminating session that 250gm was way over the top when hand laminating with vacuum.
I think it was closer to 50gms per sq metre. (detailed this in one of my early posts.)

It also surprises me that so far Gurit are the only ones to my knowledge that provide data sheets that specify a vacuum window
given the hardener and ambient temperature. This has been just so handy to ensure I can run a high vacuum without pulling too much resin out of the laminate.
I'm nearing the end of the laminating now, only got the settee backs and a few small things to go.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #280497
09/11/15 01:18 AM
09/11/15 01:18 AM
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phill Offline OP
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I've been working away slowly.
Here is a pic or the window shape that I have finally decided upon.
[Linked Image]

Attached Files
window.jpg (427 downloads)
Last edited by phill; 09/11/15 01:18 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #280498
09/11/15 01:35 AM
09/11/15 01:35 AM
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phill Offline OP
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After a great deal of procrastination I have finally worked out how I want the interior set up.
No doubt once sailing I'll find it is all wrong but at least I have a starting point.

Here is a couple of pics.

The fdw port compartment will hold a water bladder and will pack fruit and veg on top.
Between that and the D/B case will be the battery and depth sounder.
The battery will be on a small false floor.
On the other side of the case will be esky/car fridge but not when racing. (also on small false floor)

[Linked Image]

I intend to make some in fill panels between the seat and D/B case to widen the seats for sleeping.
[Linked Image]


Attached Files
seating.jpg (588 downloads)
Storage.jpg (593 downloads)
Last edited by phill; 09/11/15 01:47 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #280499
09/11/15 02:00 AM
09/11/15 02:00 AM
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phill Offline OP
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I made the seat backs from 8mm corcell M80under vacuum with 200gm plain weave glass each side.
The edge has a strip of the panel doubled up and a layer of 300gm uni carbon to each side to strengthen.

[Linked Image]


There is a recess made into the edge that will house LED strip lighting.
There will be a coloured night setting to not affect night vision as well as a white light for when at anchour.
So the main lighting in the cabin will be indirect.
It will also have a light above the dining/chart table for use when reading charts.

[Linked Image]


The seat backs were not taken down to the seats but join the hull further up.
This was done by applying a 100mm wide layer of glass, 50mm on the edge.
This was wet out with fast hardener and once cured but still green, put in place and the other half wet out against the hull.
When cured any gap was filled and glassed over.

[Linked Image]


Attached Files
seat back const 1.jpg (548 downloads)
seat back const 2.jpg (535 downloads)
seat back const 3.jpg (549 downloads)
Last edited by phill; 09/11/15 02:07 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #280500
09/11/15 02:16 AM
09/11/15 02:16 AM
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phill Offline OP
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I decided that I woudn't have cushions on the seat backs.
This allowed me to bring the seats backs fwd the width of the cushions, providing more storage space behind and allows both the sink and cooker to be installed behind the seat backs.
When installed they will be made to come fwd for use in a similar manner to the production F22.

[Linked Image]

The seats tops will be divided for the storage compartments.
This will provide a place to hang the foul weather gear on the stbd side of the D/B. when the seat top is open.

[Linked Image]

Attached Files
seat backs installed.jpg (529 downloads)
seats open.jpg (571 downloads)
Last edited by phill; 09/11/15 02:20 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #280501
09/11/15 02:26 AM
09/11/15 02:26 AM
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phill Offline OP
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Currently the hull is upside down and I'm working through it with paint.
Here is a pic with the ceiling above the fwd berth undercoated.
I could do this standing up through the fwd hatch.

[Linked Image]

Here is a pic of my first instalment of sails.

[Linked Image]

Attached Files
sails.jpg (561 downloads)
upside down s.jpg (581 downloads)
Last edited by phill; 09/11/15 06:29 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #280517
09/14/15 02:46 AM
09/14/15 02:46 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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West coast of Norway
Quote
No doubt once sailing I'll find it is all wrong but at least I have a starting point.


That made my day laugh

Thank you for sharing all the pics and info on your decisions during the build. I am certain this will be a masterpiece when done (if a boat is ever "done").

Last edited by Rolf_Nilsen; 09/14/15 02:47 AM.
Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #280537
09/16/15 09:22 PM
09/16/15 09:22 PM
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phill Offline OP
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Thanks Rolf,
It's good to see that someone is checking up on the build now and then.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #280538
09/17/15 02:16 AM
09/17/15 02:16 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Your posts about your F85 build is the main reason I check in here.


Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #280539
09/17/15 06:04 AM
09/17/15 06:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 25
Wilhelmshaven, Niedersachsen, ...
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luckystrike118 Offline
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Wilhelmshaven, Niedersachsen, ...
Hi Phil,

I want to agree with Rolf. Your building blog is a inspiration for many detail solutions, even if Iam no Farrier Fan. I have copied a lot of posts for my own building project (just in case the site will shut down). I like to read your posts and return regularly. Please keep on!

Best Regards, Michel


hullaballo
Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #280566
09/20/15 12:13 AM
09/20/15 12:13 AM
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phill Offline OP
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Michel and Rolf,Thanks.
I used to have a site on geocities for boat building and I could see the stats. That was interesting. It was lost when geocities changed. I have been thinking of setting something up similar that I would control so stuff doesn't get lost. All the early pics have been lost from this site when the photo album feature was scrapped. . I just need to find time to redo everything elsewhere. Right now I have to get this on the water.
It is quite surprising how the inside of the boat feels like it is getting bigger as it is painted. I think I have it worked out so everything will be stored with very easy access so the inside can be kept uncluttered. Only time will tell if I'm having myself on. Here is a pic with some parts painted.

[Linked Image]

Attached Files
Inside paint 1.jpg (507 downloads)
Last edited by phill; 09/20/15 12:15 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: F85SR Concept Boat [Re: phill] #280647
09/29/15 04:33 AM
09/29/15 04:33 AM
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phill Offline OP
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Nearly finished painting the inside.
I just have the seat tops and the cabin floor to go.
I'm quite keen to get this behind me so I can start putting a finish on the outside .
Unlike most, I quite enjoy fairing.

[Linked Image]


Attached Files
Inside Painting.jpg (444 downloads)
Last edited by phill; 09/29/15 04:35 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

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