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Re: anti-slip cover rudder-stick [Re: jollyrodgers] #280618
09/25/15 03:08 PM
09/25/15 03:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 519
Petten Netherlands
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northsea junkie Offline OP
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Posts: 519
Petten Netherlands
Originally Posted by jollyrodgers
Mn3,
How do you know it isn't rudder push or whatever the opposite of rudder tug would be?



It would only be "rudder push" if the working point of the rudders were before the pivot point of the rudderstock.
And that's very unlikely.

I would say to Bob: rake the mast to aft. Put an extra shackle in the fore-stay and adjust the shrouds accordingly.

And see how this works.


ronald
RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)

hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?..
"huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: anti-slip cover rudder-stick [Re: northsea junkie] #280624
09/26/15 11:33 AM
09/26/15 11:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
jollyrodgers Offline
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jollyrodgers  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
I don't know about that. If you use a well balance boat like a TheMightyHobie18 as an example; Some of them had rudder push right out of the box. Just raking the rudder or rudders back a fraction of a degree would make the boat sail straight. Where as raking the mast aft didn't change much at all. I think tipping the mast one way or another is over rated on it's effect over helm. It doesn't do as much as you might think on a windsurfer either. It is tipping the board with your feet that turns it. At the end of a tack you can rake the mast extremely forward to act like a jib to bring the bow around, and you have to rake the sail back to jump around the front of the mast. You don't steer by raking the mast on a board.

I have the same thing on my little boardless cat as the TheMightyHobie18. I get a neutral helm with the rudders straight down, but just a fraction of a degree too far forward and lee helm kicks in. i don't think there is a crossing of the working center with the pivot center to cause the lee helm/rudder push.

Also i wonder how the Super Cat rudders fit into this story. They have like 3-5 degrees forward rake and the boat sail balanced.

Perhaps Mn3 only has lee helm with the Spi. up. He would either need to live with it or adjust the rudders and hope the rudder tug, if any, doesn't bother him upwind.

Re: anti-slip cover rudder-stick [Re: jollyrodgers] #280633
09/28/15 02:36 AM
09/28/15 02:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 519
Petten Netherlands
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northsea junkie Offline OP
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northsea junkie  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Petten Netherlands
David, talking about this paradoxial phenomenas like weather helm and tillertug (and push) remains confusing.

The article from Kim Miller ("Kim Tiller") which I'v presented, gives an first insight in the Babylonical confusion of tongues with regard to this subject.
Problem is that in almost every catamaran operation manual is mentioned that weatherhelm can be corrected by raking the rudder.

But we are not the only ones who sail with a hull and a sail.
Looking on internet you will find plenty of articles about "rudder balance" (our tug and push) and helmbehaviour from sailingboats in general.

By the way, Mn's problem with leehelm is indeed more difficult than the most common weatherhelm. That's because leehelm is counterforcing the pressure on the rudder by the hulldrift!!!!???!!

Prosit, have a good sailing



ronald
RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)

hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?..
"huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
Re: anti-slip cover rudder-stick [Re: northsea junkie] #280741
10/06/15 08:38 PM
10/06/15 08:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 12
South Florida
M
Mini Me Offline
stranger
Mini Me  Offline
stranger
M

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 12
South Florida
consult with your primary physician, a series of advorrudderhelmstatin pills, 20mg may solve your issues.

Re: anti-slip cover rudder-stick [Re: Mini Me] #280748
10/07/15 09:26 AM
10/07/15 09:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 519
Petten Netherlands
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northsea junkie Offline OP
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northsea junkie  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 519
Petten Netherlands
Mini me, no need for pills for this reason. (Though I'm a pill taker)
You obviously haven't seen my arms.

I'm a solo catsailor. As a result of that and my 150 kg cat
and the steep flood mark I've maxi upperarms.

Good idea for you Mini???


ronald
RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)

hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?..
"huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
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