I've attached a picture of my track from a couple of days ago. I sailed my Mystere 6.0, solo, with only a mainsail, in about 12-16 knot winds.

The sail used was a Tornado sail which is about twelve inches shorter in the foot than the stock Mystere sail. [take 12 inches from a foot and you have...nothing! ] The builder says that a stock main sail is 18.1 square meters. I believe a Tornado main sail is 15 squares. So I'm sailing this thing with an 83% main.

Wind is from the West and my circuit direction is counter-clockwise; first upwind moving West, then downwind moving East.

My distance sailed was 17.7 nautical miles.
My time was 2.1 hours.
My average boat speed was 8.4 knots.
My average boat speed upwind was 8.4 knots.
My average boat speed downwind was 8.4 knots.
My average upwind tacking angle (true, over the ground) was 96º (48º
off the wind)
My average downwind tacking angle (true, over the ground) was 117º
(121.5º off the wind)

I never could understand why this boat points so much better than other centerboarded catamarans that I've sailed on. I have come to think that it is the narrow, vertical bow acting as a lifting surface. I wonder if a 10 foot wide Mystere 6.0*XL* can point this well. I know that the Tornados that I've sailed on can't do it. And the shape of the centerboards are not a whole lot different than the Mystere centerboards.

Would anyone care to comment, compare, or speculate?

Cheers,
GARY

Hi Gary
just messin round on the forum ,-I,ll take a guess .
Seems your track is very consistant with little veering ,
that,s good!!

Looks like you got a little lift out of the Del Rey harbor,
maybe a shore effect lift and it just followed you around the course.

There could be a number of factors other than the Del Rey triangle effect .
Generally main only rigs sail higher than main + jib rigs.
The mast section and fullness or flatness of sail effects course heading as well. Full ones create more lift and power ,-flat ones point higher.
A main only T can theoretically sail higher with main only rather than main and jib though the main and jib T sailed lower with better VMG will get to the weather mark first.
The higher aspect mainsail also helps sail higher without stall , most designers -sailmakers will tell you that sq ft area is not as important as aspect ratio
--That is higher taller narrower sails are more effecient , check out A Class sail configurations . They are allowed 150 sq ft only ,--so all of it is in tall narrow high aspect mains.

Narrow more displacement type hulls with narrow bows track better and sideslip less ,-board configuration and effeciency are big factors in pointing ability of a particular design ,-boardless boats being the worst at drift angle actual course vs course heading .
This drift lessons at cat speed increases and more hull is depressed underwater. This is apparent in design rating schemes like Texel where boardless boats are given 3 pts but this percieved non board disadvantage is negated in higher winds ,so H-16s often win Texel races on rated time.
sorry digressing there,-
Beyond basic boat hull design ,sail shape ,board config.
The other aspect may be the human element , some of us are pinchers {like me} and always prefer sailing as close hauled as possible to weather though not always attaining the best VMG , Velocity Made Good.

The GPS will give a read on VMG though takes a while to read accurately ,--try sailing normally and get a VMG reading , then try sailing off a few degrees on a steady course and check the VMG .It can be surprising in that sailing lower is sometimes faster though never seeming like it to the pincher type.

The best thing to do is race alongside comperable speed boats and just race often,-in trying different techniques and various sailing angles to match conditions along with others you learn your boat and its characteristics. Many go out and speed tune with identical boats trying different tuning set-ups and various sail settings and steering methods ,-the most important being very smooth and not oversteering constantly as most new sailors do if you watch them from a distance.

In racing the I-20 for several years now in distance races it is very amazing how much more the teams get out of these same boats now as they did when new and techniques and correct tuning not yet fully known ,-it makes a large difference that addes up to huge distances over a days racing.

Some just have a wondefull 6th sence as to exact wind veers and changes that can sail perfectly once within the :zone"; you may be one so fortunate that sails by feel mainly .
Try sailing at night sometime , then check your course to see how straight and consistant it is .
or sail blindfolded ,its great practise to develop feel -
kind of a ZEN thing ,

HOPE that is helpfull
have fun
Carl

Fourty-some downloads of the picture and, so far, only one reply. Well thanks for taking the time to reply, Carl!

I'll comment on your reply:

Not sure what you are seeing that you say is a lift of the MDR harbor, but it might have been where I had to 'fall off' to avoid a big jetty that parallels the shore and is located West of, and perpendicular to, the main channel.

Note that the track shows a downwind return trip in the main channel and that my upwind, outbound route is not shown until I got to the place that is covered by that big "pacific ocean" label, in the picture.

I don't know what "the del rey triangle effect" is and I hope you're not talking about Delray Beach, FL, because I'm in Marina Del Rey, CA.

True the "main only" configuaration will point higher, but analysis of my tracks when sailing sloop rigged show that my boat loves to sail close to the wind. I do use a vmg meter to see how well I'm doing and my boat loves to sail up there around 50º to the wind. (as long as I have enough wind to keep the boards moving fast enough to do their job)

I would have to agree that aspect ratio is very important. By reducing about 15% of my sail area off of the leech, I've done just that. The boat seems to like it. And as you may have guessed, I am having to move (tilt) my rig aft to accomodate the forward movement of my CE.

You say you pinch too much (according to your vmg). What do you suppose causes this? I find that when I have too much weahter helm (true, not apparant or perceived helm) that I don't stay as low as I should. I always fix this with mast rake adjustment.

I have not yet measured how close to the wind I can sail. This will make for an interesting test someday. If I pinch high enough, I may even find a point of sail where my vmg is not as severely harmed as it is when I point just slightly too high. We'll see; I may even have to come in off of the trapeze to do it. I have serious doubts that I'll find a point of sail higher than 46ºt(rue) that will be anywhere near as good as sailing the lower angles.

When you say that the I20 sailors have not yet finished dialing in these boats, it makes me want to get one and try my hand at it. I am not a racer and even if I was, I'd have a hard time comparing myself against others. I don't think that there is another Mystere brand catamaran on the West side of the Continental Divide. I have never seen one, that's for sure.

In the beginning of your post you commented that it was good that I was not veering.

Thank you for saying so, but what is veering?

You later talk about Zen and sailing without visual aid. That's me; you got it. I don't even want a flimsy old windex aboard my stout and sturdy catmaran. No room for such a flimsey, breakable device. I will admit, however, to using tell tales on my sails. After all, I can't see wind; only the effects of it's pressure.

One more thing: I mentioned that my fine, plumb bows seem to make a good lifting foil. Well that is possibly true, but I am still confused about how it still yields to less side-slip than does a Tornado in light conditions when I have my bow above the water. In light air, when I'm sailing a Prindle 19 or a Tornado, I see an alarming amount of side-slip that is not present in my Mystere. I wonder what is going on there.

I would love to hear a commentary from someone who has sailed both a Mystere 6.0, a Mystere 6.0XL, and a Tornado. That would be a very interesting comparison/contrast story to me.

Sail Fast,
GARY

Hi Gary

It might be your forum picture ,-
just joking with you a little on the triangle and veers etc ,-the written word always seems more harsh than ever intended .
Have sailed the T ,-and tryed a mystere once ,-there were a few of them in the 98 Worrell race , good boats though large volume hulls .


The best thing to improve and find answers to these types of questions any sailor could do is race .
I had a knee injury so I,ve been out for the last year ,
thinking of racing the Atlantic 1000 mile race again ,but realize I really need some race and sailing time in before attempting another.
Racing with others will excellerate the learning process and develop your sailing skills to handle a boat on all points of sail in varied conditions 10 times faster than just cruising.
It is a little hard on the ego at first ,-no one wins right off ,but it is the best way to find out many of the questions your asking ,that direct competition and input from other sailors is invaluable as well.-
Sounds like your already a very good sailor ,-that will take you to the next level ,-plus generally a very nice,energetic ,fun group of people that sail and race .
have fun
all the best

My fundamental questions were "Why does a Mystere 6.0 sail closer to the wind with less side slip than a Prindle 19 and a Tornado?" and "Does a Mystere 6.0XL(wider) also out-point the Tornado?"

I don't think those questions are answered on the race course. And if they are, then were do I find another Mystere to race against if the nearest one is on the other side of the Rockies?

I offered my gps track as a conversation piece more than seeking answers to anything. Since I don't race and since nobody around here in Marina Del Rey who can get close to me is ever on the water when I am on the water, I use my gps data to learn from. It's all I have besides the wind, water, waves, and birdies who I can not keep up to.

As far as learning by racing goes, well I guess first you would have to want to race. I'm starting my 24rth year since I started sailing. Okay, I only sailed about 20 of them. But a few weeks ago I crewed on a Tornado in an inverted start race. That was my first catamaran race. It was NOT any more fun, nor as much fun as what the racers refer to as "pleasure sailing."

Yep, I'm a pleasure sailor. And since I principally sail solo, I guess you could get away with some comment about self pleasure.

I've been on race crews on leaners. I'm sorry that I spent as much time with it as I did. I like to sum up leaner racing as this: "Take a look at a picture of all the guys sitting backwards on the edge of a deck; their arms and legs flailing outward. Does that look like a good sport to take part in?"

But I don't need to slam the leaners to make excuses for me not racing. I have no reason to want to race. I get all the pleasure I need from sailing without racing. And I try to go faster, not to beat anyone; just to better myself and have more fun. Racing is good in that sense; that it betters you and adds to the fun. But the traffic and dirty air make it less fun for me.

And when I did race, I was not real happy about the extra bruises and broken boat parts. But at least the parts were not mine and the bruises do heal.

GARY

P.S. Carl,

None of the posts you made came across harsh to me in any way. I appreciate that you made a point to make sure I wasn't taking you to be more harsh than you intended.

And I still don't know what veering is. I think that veering is when the wind shifts. But when you said that it appeared in the track that I was not doing much veering, I can only guess what that meant. I guessed that it meant that I kept a fairly constant course and did not allow myself to either fall off or round up. I will thank the beautiful steady wind I have been blessed with for that ability to keep a straight course.

GARY

You veer off course. The wind veers.
Veer is a Dutch word that means to change course or direction.

Back when I raced the Dart 18, the singlehanded sailors, who used the main only, always pointed much closer to the wind than the 2 up Darts with jibs. Off the wind, things changed and they were usually overhauled before the bottom mark.

The term veering usually refers to the change in the direction of the WIND. Specifically, if the wind changs in a clockwise direction it is said to be "veering". If it changes in a counter-clockwise direction, it is said to be "backing".

Definitions are reversed in the Southern Hemisphere.

If a person or boat "veers off course" it's just a DUI issue (SUI?).

Gary,

Didn't you also change the stock rudders out in favor of some Prindle ones? Perhaps the profile also lends itself to aiding in lift.

Sheldon