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Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard #282943
06/20/16 01:27 PM
06/20/16 01:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 97
The Netherlands
Arjan13 Offline OP
journeyman
Arjan13  Offline OP
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The Netherlands
I was trying to find a topic about the benefits of tapered sheets and halyard. Although I found a few topics, none of them explained the benefits. So probably it's a bit a stupid question. cool

We are about to replace some sheets and the spinnaker halyard. For that reason we are wondering if there would be any benefit in using tapered solutions. We are sailing a Nacra Inter 18, and sometimes take part in long distance races, just for fun. So there is not much advantage for us for weight reasons.

Is there really a big advantage for handling? Both for mainsheet, spinnaker sheet and halyard?

Is there any influence on the ratteling effect / braking power of the blocks?

Thanks for all input!

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: Arjan13] #282944
06/20/16 01:41 PM
06/20/16 01:41 PM

M
MN3
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MN3
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Quote
Is there really a big advantage for handling? Both for mainsheet, spinnaker sheet and halyard?


Really big - no
small advantage - yes

Mainsheet: you can have a smaller diam line running through the blocks... makes for faster release of the main, and a larger diam where you hold the line (makes for easier grip)

Spin Sheet - I don't see any value except maybe having a thinner diam where the sheet attaches to the clew (to make getting over the forestay a little easier)

Halyard - hmmmmm - can't see why / how this would be any benefit / value - but maybe someone else will see value here

Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: Arjan13] #282945
06/20/16 07:39 PM
06/20/16 07:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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The halyard is the only place of the three that I do tapered. I use Robline Dingy Control for spin halyards, it's core and cover where it cleats, just cover on the retrieval side, and just 3mm dyneema above the cleat. It runs through that tiny block at the top really well.

I like using just a single braid for main and spin sheets. I don't bother tapering the main anymore. The lines are really good now days. For the spinnaker sheet I just jab 3mm dyneema through a single braid and splice a tail into it that I tie to the spinnaker clew.


I'm boatless.
Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: Arjan13] #282946
06/20/16 10:15 PM
06/20/16 10:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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Main sheet - smaller lines have less friction through the blocks
Spin sheet - taper reduces weight on the clew and helps in light air
Spin halyard - smaller diameter has less turbulence / effect on the airflow around the mast

Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: mikekrantz] #282947
06/21/16 12:58 PM
06/21/16 12:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

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Agreed with most of above.
Blocks are much better these days and smaller diameter line works well.
I think the best on the market is SALSA.
A high-tech version of the New England Ropes classic Regatta Braid. Your hands will love this new, soft, and exceptionally strong single braid, constructed with a blend of Dyneema SK75/Spectra 1000 plus spun and filament polyester. Salsa Line is easy to grip, and has proven to be a great kink-free sheet for larger dinghies and keelboats.
Also great for small boat sheeting for mainsail, jib and spinnaker/Hooter
And it is priced so you won't break the bank;
http://www.onlinemarinestore.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=15783&idcategory=0


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: Arjan13] #282948
06/22/16 01:06 PM
06/22/16 01:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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since we're talking about "rope" stuff, I have been intrigued by these rope shackles and how to build them.

I have not seen one used at the bitter end of a line (say, to replace a shackle for a spin sheet to the spin clew). Is this able to be done, or do you have to build the rope shackle and then create an eye splice on the bitter end of the working line (spin sheet, etc).?



Jay

Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: waterbug_wpb] #282949
06/22/16 02:10 PM
06/22/16 02:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I have been intrigued by these rope shackles and how to build them.

I have not seen one used at the bitter end of a line (say, to replace a shackle for a spin sheet to the spin clew). Is this able to be done...?

Yes, it is certainly doable.

[Linked Image]

I make them a little differently now, but that should give you the basic idea.

Eric

Attached Files
SoftShackleEnd.jpg (137 downloads)
Last edited by Isotope235; 06/22/16 02:20 PM.
Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: RickWhite] #282950
06/22/16 02:36 PM
06/22/16 02:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
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Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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Originally Posted by RickWhite
I think the best on the market is SALSA.

I agree with everything Rick says about New England Salsa. I just wish they made it in reasonable colors. I bought a piece to try out as a jib sheet, and although it performed well, the color scheme made it difficult to use. Whenever the ends of the sheets wound up on top of each other, I couldn't tell which line was which. Grabbing and pulling the wrong line to uncleat the jib makes for slow tacks. I wound up taking it off after only one day.

I don't believe that tapered sheets and halyards make my boat any faster (I'm not sailing at that level), but they are cool. For tapered sheets, I like to re-core Samson Trophy Braid with Samson Amsteel Blue. Trophy Braid is soft, fuzzy, easy to grip, cleats well, comes in a good variety of colors, and is relatively inexpensive. Amsteel Blue is strong, light, low-stretch, doesn't absorb water, comes in a good variety of colors, and isn't too expensive.

Regards,
Eric

Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: Isotope235] #282951
06/22/16 03:50 PM
06/22/16 03:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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that is a pretty shackle you got there, Erik! Thanks...

Going to have to practice that a bit but would look really cool (cool is fast, right? :))


Jay

Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: Isotope235] #282954
06/22/16 05:20 PM
06/22/16 05:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Originally Posted by Isotope235

I agree with everything Rick says about New England Salsa. I just wish they made it in reasonable colors. I bought a piece to try out as a jib sheet, and although it performed well, the color scheme made it difficult to use. Whenever the ends of the sheets wound up on top of each other, I couldn't tell which line was which. Grabbing and pulling the wrong line to uncleat the jib makes for slow tacks. I wound up taking it off after only one day.


Eric, I think I follow, but can you post a pic or link of a line that solves this problem?

Mike

Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: brucat] #282955
06/22/16 06:07 PM
06/22/16 06:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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catman  Offline
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
SALSA

You will see the different colors on this page. They all look the same, Good line but you can only use it in one place.


Have Fun
Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: waterbug_wpb] #282956
06/23/16 04:34 AM
06/23/16 04:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
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Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
Those work great. Used them for jib attachment on the H8.., clean, light and would not hang up on the mast spreaders


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: RickWhite] #282957
06/23/16 08:10 AM
06/23/16 08:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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you just put that loop over the knot, and bazinga... right?


Jay

Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: waterbug_wpb] #282959
06/23/16 09:18 AM
06/23/16 09:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
you just put that loop over the knot, and bazinga... right?

Yep.

Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: catman] #282960
06/23/16 09:53 AM
06/23/16 09:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
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Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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Originally Posted by catman
You will see the different colors on this page. They all look the same, Good line but you can only use it in one place.


One issue is that Salsa's different color schemes are not very dissimilar (and therefore not readily distinguishable from each other). The problem I had is that it is not readily distinguishable from itself either. I presume that New England Rope's designers set out to make a line that is visually striking so they braided together strands of white, yellow, red, and green. The result is that that you can easily see Salsa line against any background -- except itself.

You know how camouflage fatigues work? The blotches of color disrupt the eye's ability to discern the outline of a person, making him easier to overlook. Well, the pattern in New England Salsa does the same thing. When sections of the line get heaped on top of each other, it's hard to visually follow any given one to it's end. Perhaps it's only a problem because of my jib's running rigging, but when using a single line for the sheets, there can be 4 different sections laying on the same area of my trampoline. When tacking, I have to reach down, grab the correct one and pull in order to uncleat the jib. With solid-color (or normally flecked) line, I can identify the correct line with a glance. With Salsa line, the sections blend together and it takes much longer to determine which is the correct one.

Originally Posted by brucat
... can you post a pic or link of a line that solves this problem?

Well, any line that is primarily one solid color doesn't have this problem. I've gone further and color-coded my jib sheets (green on starboard tack, and red on port) so it's instantly apparent which one to pull when tacking.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: Isotope235] #282962
06/23/16 10:44 AM
06/23/16 10:44 AM

M
MN3
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MN3
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I use Salsa for a spin sheet.
there is not a large excess of line, so I don't really have any issues with it.

I wouldn't use it anywhere else on the same boat or I would get it mixed up

Last edited by MN3; 06/23/16 10:44 AM.
Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: Arjan13] #282963
06/23/16 04:41 PM
06/23/16 04:41 PM
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brucat Offline
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Well, I thought I was following, until you said a solid line was less confusing. Now, I'm completely lost.

Mike

Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: brucat] #282964
06/23/16 05:47 PM
06/23/16 05:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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Isotope235  Offline
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Originally Posted by brucat
Well, I thought I was following, until you said a solid line was less confusing. Now, I'm completely lost.

When the line is a solid color, you can see the edges (or outline of the rope if you will). The multiple color pattern of New England Salsa make it difficult to discern the edges when heaped, bunched, or coiled. Like camouflage, the color blotches break up the outline. When you can see the edges, your eye can trace from the running end to the standing end. When the outline is broken up, that's more difficult.

Re: Tapered sheets & spinnaker halyard [Re: Arjan13] #282967
06/24/16 08:26 AM
06/24/16 08:26 AM
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brucat Offline
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Copy. I thought you meant that you would look at the color pattern to determine which way the line was running, sort of like firemen follow the unidirectional fittings on their hoses to find their way back out of a smoke-filled building.

Using salsa as an example, on a H16 jib sheet (single line, run through cleats mounted on the front crossbar), the arrows would point towards one cleat and away from the other. Non-pointed flecks could do the same, as long as there are at least three colors (and you train yourself to remember the pattern, such as R-Y-B vs B-Y-R).

Mike


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