Wouter, you are trying to have a logical argument with illogical people. The only way to make a point is to ask a question or two. Say, try, "how will your proposed steps (bombing the Taliban) further Democracy for the world" Of course it doesnt- you give up some freedom every time you get gung ho, but you still have "Thank a Vietnam vet for your freedom" ? concept going here.
<br>Terrorism is a mind game, so we are at an immediate disadvantage judging from the responses in the postings. The thing I fear is the Free People allow the government to do what the hell they like in times of strife, and boy are they ready to take advantage of it. Its the old " Government/Daddy" syndrome.
<br>Get educated. Get logical. Stay Relevant. Beware of pat phrases. Macho went out with big families. Dont let the government roll over you. <br><br>

>>The only way to make a point is to ask a question or two.
<br>
<br>I will try that the next time, when there will be a next time.
<br>
<br>Thanks for the post
<br>
<br>Wouter<br><br>

Wouter,
<br>
<br>Did you watch "Behind the Veil" last night on CNN? If so, I'd be interested to hear what you think of the Taliban now...and to what you think the proper response to that totalitarian dictatorship should be.
<br>
<br>If you didn't watch it, I recorded it and would be more than happy to mail it to you if you'll e-mail me your address.
<br>
<br>If you're not interested in watching it, then you need not respond - I understand enough about you and your philosophy and you understand enough about me and mine.
<br>
<br>
<br>ScaredyCat<br><br>

Hi, David,
<br>I'm not sure I'm quite quick enough mentally to follow your reasoning... specifically the assertions below seem a tad chary of substantiation...
<br>
<br>>Say, try, "how will your proposed steps (bombing the Taliban) further Democracy for the world" Of course it doesnt- you give up some freedom every time you get gung ho, but you still have "Thank a Vietnam vet for your freedom" ? concept going here.
<br>
<br>I'm not advocating bombing the Taliban, nor, I believe, has Scaredycat done so. I'm advocating what is in effect ignoring the so-called "sovereignity" of the Taliban, since they won't take responsibility for the actions of the people dwelling on their soil. Specifically, I support dealing with the Afghan people kindly, like, by dropping Food on them. Elaborating here, I further suggest asking moderate Islamic states to assist us with selecting and packaging the food, and the composing of a suitably reassuring message to the Afghan people. This way, the moderate Islamics will know we don't seek to woo those people away from Islam, merely away from hatred. Secondly, I support carefully circumscribed military action aimed not at the Taliban, but at bin Laden's Al-Que-ada organization.
<br>I strongly implied these priorities in my earlier posts, without spelling out specific actions.
<br>
<br>Re: "thanking a Viet Nam Vet...etc." It is now indisputable that the decades long policy of containment was successful in its primary goal of preventing the Soviet Union from using the cruel joke of totalarian communism to fool poor populations into becoming tributary nations to the USSR, while the West out performed Communism economically. Ultimately, TV and FAx machines felled the USSR - by preventing Pravda from continuing to convince the Soviet people that they were prospering more than people in free market economies. However,when this finally happened, the empire was considerably smaller than it would have been without US containment. Possibly, the subjugation of one after another satelite nation might have permitted enough incremental advances in quality of life for Russian citizens to delay the unrest to which Gorbachev was forced to respond with market reforms.
<br>
<br>So, yes, freedom's goals were served by Viet Nam. Which doesn't make it any less horrible a time for the Vietnamese, the Campbodians, Laosians, or 17-25 yr old soldiers from the "UN" peacekeeping force.
<br>
<br>>>The thing I fear is the Free People allow the government to do what the hell they like in times of strife, and boy are they ready to take advantage of it. Its the old " Government/Daddy" syndrome.
<br>Get educated. Get logical. Stay Relevant. Beware of pat phrases. Macho went out with big families. Dont let the government roll over you.
<br>
<br>
<br>God bless you David. Sincerely. Unchecked power is a horrible thing, trampling the rights of many, and ultimately redounding to the undoing of the powerful. The mighty, to be meritorious, and not merely bullies, must have a conscience, and must listen to the dictates of that conscience. In our nation, David, it is people like you and yes, to a certain degree, Wouter, who must act as our conscience.
<br>
<br>Didn't you read my post carefully, whien I said I wouldn't have it any other way? It's the self-hatred, I oppose here. The cynical, reflexive assumption that if we're considering taking action, it must by definition be wrong, self serving, greedy etc.
<br>
<br>Oh, and please, don't imply the post-ers on this thread are short of gray matter. You do yourself a disservice to imply that you have nothing better to do than to lecture to people of diminished intelectual capacity.
<br>
<br>Regards,
<br>
<br>Ed Norris<br><br>

>>Re: Interested in evidence - or just full of BS?
<br>
<br>Quite a judgemental header. But Okay here is my reply.
<br>
<br>>>Did you watch "Behind the Veil" last night on CNN? If so, I'd be interested to hear what you think of the Taliban now...and to what you think the proper response to that totalitarian dictatorship should be.
<br>
<br>
<br>No I didn't see and if you reread my posts than you will find that I already indicated that I was already aware of these thing for some time. And I mean several months prior to WTC attack.
<br>
<br>And I still say that the afghan problem is far more complex than what apparently many think. A simple strike will NOT hurt Bin Laden, probably impacts heaviliest on the simple folk that are indeed suffering already, polerize the arabic world, destabilize Pakistan and Saoedi Arabia further and very probably entflame the missed terrorist further opening up the USA for more attacks.
<br>
<br>I know that the reasoning is that "you want to show them that america will strike back and thus give off o signal of willingness to retaliate after a next time. Thus hoping that this will scare them off" Sadly, these terrorist don't think this way. That is the real problem the USA and WE are faced with.
<br>
<br>Strike them with succes and they become matyrs, The Survivors will call on the tradition of blood feut and create a new network with the goal of tacking revenge on the USA again. Ghandi said : An eye for an eye ends up making the whole world blind. And in this particular situation he is absolutely right.
<br>
<br>Try to strike them but miss and hitting normal people will outrage the Arabic world and work up more anti USA and Anti -Israeli sentiment EVEN THOUGH ISRAEL ISN"T EVEN INVOLVED NOW. But they see it as one pact. And they will act on the views they posses. Our views are irrelivant to them.
<br>
<br>Try to strike and miss everything will make the USA loose face and show that the terrorist can get awasy with actions like this. They already believe that Vietnam and Russian afghan wars have shown that superpowers can be beaten by small capable querilla groups. Chechnia is anotjer proof in their eyes.
<br>
<br>There is no simple answer ! Simple answers have enormous potential to back fire in this complex situation. And our main goal should be to prevent more attacks like the WTC I say. If WE or the USA has to swallow a bit of pride to achieve this result than so be it. For I personally refuse to sacrifice more innocent people because USA acts, understandibally ofcourse, on feelings of vengence and anger.
<br>
<br>Nations are sensitive to retaliative strikes, terrorist groups are nearly insensitive to it. That is why this is not a War but more a fight or Quest against terrorism.
<br>
<br>Even toppling this totalitairian regime won't hit the Terrorist organisations much. Sadly it's biggest effect will be to ease our minds. And even more sadly it will plunge the Afghan people into another chaotic period of internal power struggles between tribes and nation (Iran, pakistan, USA) backed groups. Ofcourse, many hate this regime but at the moment they hate instability even more for it will destroy the few resources and fruits of their labour that they still have left too. Ofcourse the women is severly mistreated but they will be mistreated EVEN worse when they get caught in the middle of tribal wars. And when we cause this just to satisfy our feeling of justice and revenge than I'm even more ashamed than when I heard the first news flashes about mosks and arabic people being attacked in the western world because of our sentiments as a result of the WTC attack.
<br>
<br>No somebody on this forum said it right. Terrorsim is a mind game, much like a game of chess (I add) and impatience and unbalances moves are sure loosers in this game. Lets not fall for the sacrifice trap where the enemy lures us to gain a bishop by a bold strike and thus creates whole in our own overall stance on the board.
<br>
<br>
<br>>>If you didn't watch it, I recorded it and would be more than happy to mail it to you if you'll e-mail me your address.
<br>
<br>Thank you for the offer, I will probably get the change to see it on CNN international one of these days. Moreso because we use the PAL TV protocol overhere and you in USA use NDSC. So my video couldn't play your tape. Sorry.
<br>
<br>Regards,
<br>
<br>Wouter
<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>

If you get a chance in a few minutes, take the opportunity to see Dr. Piekoff on O'Reilly Factor on Fox News (8:00 ET)...it should replay a few times tonight also.
<br>
<br>If you don't get that chance, buy the New York Times tomorrow and you'll see his full page ad entitled something like "End States that Sponsor Terrorism".
<br>
<br>Sorry about my previous provocative subject line.
<br>
<br>ScaredyCat<br><br>

Of course these observations are right on the mark, Wouter!
<br>Naturally, you wait 'till I get all hot and bothered by your assertions about America's 'rights' and "hypocrisy" THEN you turn properly to discussing what is wisest. I strongly second all you said in this post, while deeply and personally opposing all you said in your earlier ones!
<br>(See my post in this thread about feeding them... )
<br>
<br>Regards,
<br>
<br>Ed Norris<br><br>

Dear Ed
<br>Agreed. But doesnt it shock you when the major response of the people is reflexive agression. In a country of such oportunity, why is the average response so neandertal? Why are good logical arguments on this site (innevitably with some bias), countered with irrelevant pat phrases? Schoolyard stuff. I am (clearly) no history buff, but I do demand a certain logic and relevance!
<br>Thanks to the people who know their stuff and enlighten us all on this site. Do them justice. Weigh the evidence, don't try and pick a winner.<br><br>

OK,
<br>
<br>We're all pretty sure of where we all stand on this now!
<br>
<br>What really worries me, I guess, is at WHAT POINT do we REALLY get serious about stopping terrorists and those that "declare war" on us? Apparently 6000 innocent lives murdered and two great buildings brought down isn't enough to get through all of our heads that we are in fact AT WAR. I am so afraid that it WILL take something like a chemical weapon or even a nuclear weapon used against us to wake us up to the kind of evil we're actually dealing with.
<br>
<br>When one of those weapons IS used against us then the American people will look to their government and tell it to do and use WHATEVER it takes to rid the world of those who have declared war on us.
<br>
<br>I'll respond to one more of your comments, then I'm going to drop out of this thread since I've more than made known where I stand on this: I am for the UNILATERAL defense of The United States of America, by whatever means are necessary to INSURE the security and freedom of The United States of America.
<br>
<br>You said:
<br>
<br>"I know that the reasoning is that "you want to show them that america will strike back and thus give off o signal of willingness to retaliate after a next time. Thus hoping that this will scare them off" Sadly, these terrorist don't think this way. That is the real problem the USA and WE are faced with."
<br>
<br>My response:
<br>
<br>There has NEVER in the HISTORY of the WORLD been a totalatarian dictatorship that has been diminished through pacifism or negotiation. In FACT, they have all grown STRONGER and BOLDER in the face of inaction by a victim.
<br>
<br>I pray that the day will never come when I would be able to say "I told you so."
<br>
<br>ScaredyCat<br><br>

ScaredyCat,
<br>
<br>One point of caution please. I haven't seen the program but I suspect that the list is omitting several states that also sponsor terrorism which is redefined as "protecting national interest", "supporting freedom fighters" etc.
<br>
<br>I will buy the news paper end see wether it present the complete view for I can name a few western countries too who were or still are involved in groupings like The now non existant Right wing Death Squads of Nicaragua.
<br>
<br>Wouter<br><br>

I took some advice to heart and reworded my comments a bit.
<br>
<br>Wouter<br><br>

thanks for the posts -
<br>-briefly -
<br> the day of saying quote -I told you so was Sept 11 -
<br>-We have had 8 years of incompetent foriegn policy previous to this one --Clinton depleted the military ,-and the intelligents aspects particularly ,--Incompetently entered Samolia , where U S SOLDIERS were killed and dragged through the streets , as we all recall.
<br> Clinton bombed a pharasutical Co ,-in retailiation for terrorist activities , the wrong target , mainly to divert attention from his impeachment -another boulster and propaganda victory for the terrorist , enabling them to recuit thousands more .
<br>--8 years of appeasement ,-negociation as some suggest ,-by an incompeitent too concerned with manipulating 21 year old interns and the willing politically bias major media .
<br>Sept 11 terrorist attack ,years in the planning is obviously the result .-
<br>-
<br>-Most are not saying anything at this time , and are focussed on what lies ahead for our country .-
<br>-I am sickened by the former Sec of State ,Fulbrits s interview on CNN with criticism of the current mess , which THEY created , Clinton apparrently thinking he is still running for office ,-attempting to further manipulate a willing media ,-stating they were going to get Bin L etc , -woulda coulda shouda ,-slick willy -was totally incompetent, that has now been made dramatically tradgically obvious.
<br> Now Clinton has been finally disbarred ,----the following senario will go something like this ---Clinton will go in and tell the court what IS -is again ,--the bias media will hail him as a great fighter ,-someone to be admired etc etc ,-then attack others in the court.----we have all seen the act before .
<br>-lets please all wise up as a nation and demand FACTS and TRUTH . so we can have an honest and accurate basis to make decisions and do what is right not only politically but particularly in foriegn affairs .-
<br>-
<br>-We need the factual truth rather than the bias distortion we so often recieve by so called journalists on ABC ,-NBC -CNN and others .
<br>
<br>--Obviously incompetent half measures and failed military action ,negociation , or appeasement does not work with terrorists .
<br> <br><br>

Where do you get your "unbiased" news - the 700 Club? The only real independent out there is Mother Jones, and if you ever read that, you'd have a lot more bad stuff to say about BOTH sides. As it is, let it go. Wouter, who is in many ways your complement, has moderated and learned from this, and is being quite nice. You keep on, and it's getting old. We already had this discussion at Election time, and some of us are tired of seeing this post revived. But blaming all of this on Clinton is one of the most childish, ill-tempered, inaccurate, and unfair statements I've heard. It's a bit pathetic, really. Reality check - B.L.'s still mad about the U.S. stopping his funding. If you create a weapon, and leave it lying around, don't blame someone else when it hurts you. B.L. is a weapon, and we helped to create him. If you want to bitch at something, bitch about us doing stuff like that. This doesn't justify his actions, it just means that Clinton's goof was only a drop in the bucket.
<br>Sorry, that's the situation. Now can we all pretend we're grownups for a while? Maybe discuss oh, say, maybe, sailing or something.
<br>Michael<br><br>

Off CNN -
<br>U.S. officials say word of the two Clinton administration efforts to neutralize bin Laden is coming out because former senior {cLINTON} officials want to make it clear they too saw the danger he and his organization posed and made active efforts to stop it.
<br>
<br>In 1998, after the bombings of the African embassies, former President Clinton ordered cruise missiles fired at suspected bin Laden terrorist training camps in Afghanistan. Bin Laden survived the attack.
<br>
<br>On September 23, Clinton told reporters he had authorized a plan to arrest, and if necessary, kill bin Laden -- and had even contacted a group in Afghanistan to carry out the plan.
<br>
<br>"We also trained commandos for a possible ground action, but we did not have the necessary intelligence to do it," he said.
<br>
<br>Now, Clinton said, the United States has "support from people who would not have supported us then. And they give us more options than were available then."
<br>
<br>-END
<br>
<br>-WHY are stories like this appearing NOW ,--so clinton and these people can pretend, --continue to live in their media fantasy land ? All you need to do is spin misdirect blame others, -manipulate and control public perception, this has been the method and means to the clintons rise to power and also their largest failure to really serve the best interests of the nation. ---Media manipulation, -easy to accomplish in an extreme politically human bias U S media has provided such people a dominant reign accepting or acknowledging no personal responcabilty in any aspect, -politically or personally, -as typified and as we are unfortunately forced to witness as in many previous episodes and now again in clintons pending disbarment hearings before the court.
<br>-Just lie, misdirect, blame others, spin, -use personal attack, -the clintons convinced of others political motivation because that is all that is understood and motivates them, and therein distortedly justifies their actions in their own minds.
<br>
<br>WHY is the former Sec. of state giving interviews misdirecting cause and effect of past failed policy, and WHY are bias journalists in the same article pointing a finger at others, NOW at this time.
<br>--WE as a free people have the responcabilty of asking the difficult questions, -of seeking factual complete information. Without this basis of TRUTH we continue TO REPEAT THE SAME ERRORS AND LESSONS OF HISTORY. -Often with tragic result as we now again begin to understand.
<br>
<br>-WHAT are the errors; military blunders failed attempts and mistakes, bolstering terrorist organizations, giving them propaganda victories, enabling them to recruit thousands more. -What have been the failures of the clinton administration over 8 years largely contributing to this, beyond Samolia ,-indiscriminately launching missile attacks on the wrong target to divert attention and delay a vote on his impeachment, and general inept inaction for political oriented purposes .What are the errors in values ,priorities ,and mindset that lead to these failures .
<br>-Lame excuses and attempts at misdirection and politically motivated spin as in the article above are extremely offensive to many at this time.
<br>
<br>--Like most Americans I’m really pissed off, --the best quote of the evening watching the John Lennon special the other evening.
<br> He composed music and wrote about concepts and ideas, of how to make the world a better place, always spoke his mind exemplifying some of the best ideals of America, --free speech and freedom of expression.
<br>
<br>-Some of us will react like Clinton, -with political motivation, and -carrying a self-righteous vague socialist agenda as priority. Thus motivated and armed with the power brought by willing media manipulation -typified by the articles now in the news by them, -void of any in depth questioning. They will continue down a path of misdirected denial, dogmatically, defensively using the same tactics of misinformation, -partial information, -resort to personal attack, -direct blame to others accepting no personal responsibility or arrogantly acknowledging any.--Where does this lead us as individuals or as a nation ?
<br> The worst aspect of this is there are numerous people who emulate and copy these beliefs and behavior as per example in the post above.
<br>--
<br> Some of us will react by giving our blood, -our money our time in volunteering, -will fight terrorist or help in any way possible.We will rebuild and fill our new buildings and lives with hope , the promise of a better future , and with love .
<br>-Believe this is the basis of Christian perspective on this tradgedy , in partially answering the original thread title .
<br>
<br> We ,-all people of the U S with our varous nationalities and religious beliefs ,will ask the difficult questions, -seek complete information, -facts and truth to base our actions on, --and each ask our god for guidance in these actions.
<br> We will look at the lessons of history, past and recent, and accomplish what we must in dealing with terrorists .We will try to eliminate human bias, try to correct the errors and failures of the past by seeking truth and continuing to establish basic ideals of human freedom that allows all humanity the opportunity to grow learn thrive and prosper.
<br><br><br>

It’s not about killing as many people as possible, it’s about killing the right people. Yes, I said it., people must die.
<br>
<br>Nobody is proposing wide spread bombing, nuclear strikes or rampant killing in Afghanistan (or Syria, or Iraq or, fill in your favorite terrorist harboring country here)… yet there must be retaliation. We must lead the world, with or without the support of every nation in the world, in identifying, hunting down and then eliminating the people who perform terrorism, and as President Bush said “..those who harbor them”. This does not mean to kill all Afghanis, quite the contrary, we need to help liberate the women of Afghanistan, who are beaten or killed regularly, for minor infraction of the Taliban’s distorted view of what is right.
<br>
<br>We need to find these terrorists, cut off their communication and food supplies, and then eliminate then from the face of the earth. We need to show future terrorists that they will not be tolerated in any way what so ever. Then, and only then, can we help the starving and tormented people of Afghanistan and oppressive countries like Afghanistan.
<br>
<br>Read Michael Kelly’s articles written for The Washington Post (see MSNBC’s Opinion page)
<br><a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/634264.asp?0cb=-11427456">Kelly Part 1</a>
<br><a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/637394.asp">Kelly Part 2</a>
<br>He speaks volumes about why we need to fight.
<br>
<br>God Bless America.
<br>
<br>DEQ204
<br>H-16 #102496
<br><br><br>

I’ve had it with your pompous, semi literate, lectures. I’m also sick of hearing you conservatives whining about the liberal media when I’m constantly subjected to the likes of George Will, Rush Limbaugh, Tony Snow, William Safire, John Stossell(not really a journalist but a liar and editorialist), Cal Thomas, Ollie North - I could go on and on.
<br>
<br>Years ago, when the Clinton administration identified bin Laden as a threat they took drastic steps to try and take him out. As usual the conservatives found fault with these measures and attributed them to Clinton attempting to divert attention. Please stop preaching to us about your version of truth, justice and the American way.
<br><br><br>

With the exception of George Will, --all of those mentioned can only be accessed by obscure A M radio stations, -being unfamiliar with them believe they are as stated more in the entertainment industry and state that themselves along with the alignment of their individual viewpoint expressed. There is also a number or similar leftist viewpoint shows you conveniently leave out in your own bias assessment of, -{liar editorialist}. --Your term quote "liar editorialists " -hardly applies to those who clearly state there political perspective and have a talk show about it --
<br>--Liar editorialists could only be those who purposely disguise themselves intertwined with factual news information off the wire and then espouse one political party line, -or spin, --as do so many main stream media newsreaders. --BLITZER on CNN -Greenfield CNN -ABC news radio every day, -Hilary on Larry King AGAIN this evening, -on and on -all mainstream media {liar editorialists}
<br>--The only positive aspect to this situation in the U S has been the evolution of FOX News –with a more balanced presentation which has taken huge percentages of viewers in recent years from these politically bias news organizations.
<br>
<br> George Will, -excellent journalist who more often criticizes conservative policies and is very much a free thinker, -was sometimes seen on ABC, -on Sun morning, -but surrounded by 3 left viewpoint news personalities, -Sam Donaldson, -extreme lib views, -Koky Roberts, -mod lib views, -with extreme lib background, -and George Steponopolis, --directly from the Clinton administration, -who lives in the media fantisyland. -
<br> George Will receives all or 2 minutes actual air time in a 30 minute program. -
<br> THIS IS YOUR PERSEPTION OF EQUAL REPRESENTATION OF VIEWPOINTS.
<br>
<br>
<br>-Your further assessment of the Clinton administration is as accurate as your definitions, --please repeat and spew out more party propaganda line from Clinton we see now in the news, -as listed in the post above of the CNN article, -but, god forbid any of us should every question it, -or think for ourselves. --It was on T V it must be true, ---
<br>
<br>-Would be very disappointed if your type did not always accompany their post with childish personal insult towards others in practicing their right of free speech on an open forum and comprehend the lack of understanding and appreciation you obviously have for basic American ideals.
<br>
<br>Simply suggest that you take a long look in the mirror, -if possible, - and apply the adjectives, --pompous, -preachy, -whiny, -etc. you try to apply to others on yourself first.
<br> If you’re very fortunate someday you will find that is where they apply.
<br>
<br>-There is an excellent article by Woodward on Haq ,-potentially the man to lead the Afgan people to overthrough the Talib . -Copied on the forum under -{responding to a pacifist} post by Jake ,-worth reading .
<br>-I see foreign journaists like Sara Shaw's report -Beneath the Veil ,-and am in aw of the courage and intergrity ,--
<br>
<br>-Evan people like yourself , a staunch clintonite ,-have to admitt they have a difficult time stating or admitting the truth .
<br> Why do we have a gullable mainstream media that will repeat them word for word as you did .
<br>-Again where does this lead us as individuals or as a nation .
<br>
<br>-Without freedom of speech and thinking people to act and correct our actions we will be lead like sheep to the slaughter .
<br>Thomas Jefferson -1776-
<br>
<br>-<br><br>

Actually, all, with the exception of Stossell, Limbaugh and North are nationally syndicated columnist. But knowing that would require reading the papers once in a while.<br><br>

Do not believe either of these columnists belong in your imaginary category, -
<br>-WW-2 generation, vast life experiences to draw on --the greatest generation, -as Tom Brokal writes about.
<br>-If there are particular recent pertinent articles by these columnists please reference the title, date, and paper for us and your view of bias journalism that applies.
<br>
<br>-Would again refer you to the article on Haq by Woodward posted .
<br>
<br>-The U S is in a war with terrorists, well organized, intelligent, devious, presently headquartered and the guest of the Talib in Afghanistan and now with offshoot terrorist cells spread worldwide.
<br>-Their goal is to wage and spread Jihad -"holy war " to drive all they perceive to be infidels out of the holy lands. They will continue to kill innocent people by the thousands and apparently select young students to brainwash in hatred and train in terrorist training camps for selected missions as a major part of their strategy.
<br>-Domestically we are not prepared, -Nightline last evening had a town meeting with various heads of Gov. offices, Numerous questions and answers were posed on how to handle major civilian crisis and overwhelming medical emergencies from terrorist attacks, -the major concern was biological weapons, --small pox, -which the former Soviet Union had stockpiled and no one can really account for, -and other potential bio weapons like anthrax spores release into the air.
<br>--A new Office was created to co ordinate national civil defense and hopefully coordinate all the various organizations in place. -One main existing problem seemed to be getting the funding, -several billion available, and more recently allocated, -directly to the people on the front lines of a crisis, -that is the firemen, -and special gear and equipment required, police, -hospitals, medics, -health organization, decease control .Of the billions allocated only several million actually get to these people on the front lines where it is most needed, --much is currently wasted in duplication and lost in too many numerous gov. layers to function or work together .,hopefully that will now change .
<br> That seemed to go over the head of Ted Kopple ,his conclusion-in final summation stated the missile defense program should be stopped and those funds should also be made available for civil defense . We need both, -many potentially hostile countries are working on this, -an intercontinental ballistic missile coming in from the upper atmosphere at more than 3000 mph loaded with bio weapons is currently impossible to stop, hopefully satellite technologies, -potential laser weapons, with GPS, research and development will provide the solutions to this and many other problems in the near future. -Ideally these weapons upon launch would be blown up over those who would use them.
<br>--
<br>-Believe it is vital to allow the Afghan people either through the Northern Alliance or the emergence of a new leader like Haq of the aforementioned article to defeat the Talib. We need to assist them in taking Kabul, the capitol, and coordinate our military efforts only against the identified terrorist camps.
<br>-Again the terrorist goal is to wage and spread a holy war, --Sudam Hussein stated the same a decade earlier while invading neighboring Kuwait and lobbing missiles at Israel. Terrorists and the Talib have stated they need to win the minds and hearts of the people, -what they really need is to incite them into the same hatred, one easy way for them to accomplish this is to slaughter entire villages, -perhaps thousands of Afghans that may be of different groups other than Talib and blame it on U S troops if they are anywhere near the area. –Expect to see this attempted if we have U S military strikes. With U S surplus supplies they have available it would not be difficult to fake for the cameras. What better method of inciting not only other Afghans, but also other bordering countries.
<br> Any that have read a history book understands how volatile the region is, -WW1 began there under similar circumstances, -only this time we have bordering nations with nuclear weapons.
<br>-We are currently building alliances with as many nations in the region as possible, clearly communicating our intent of bringing the terrorists to justice. We have no interest in territories or nation building, -we need to take time, -let other Afghan fighting forces emerge, assist them in every way, once they take the capitol and defeat the main Talib forces, use the intelligence information gathered to locate and eliminate the terrorists.
<br>-Reading between the lines of existing reports believe the Sec. Of State has been arguing this approach over those at the Pentagon favoring a more direct military immanent action.
<br>--We of course already have a huge supply of food and humanitarian supplies available and sounds as though the exiled former king would serve as an interim government until free elections could take place.
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<br>We will continue to eliminate the terrorist cells as we have over the last few weeks with better intelligence and a continuous commitment to exterminate their sources, money supplies, -training camps, and strike swiftly and completely when they are identified. -We have to examine in depth the military blunders, the inaction, and failed policies of past administrations leading to this and not repeat the same errors and historical mistakes.
<br> We also have to keep a vigilance on those who we do assist from being defeated or overrun by supplying military weapons to them for defense from then emerging a decade latter to further destabilize the region with military action.
<br> The U S does not want to become the worlds police, but more readily understanding that this may be the only way the world survives a major biological extermination or nuclear winter over the next century.
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<br>Factual historical events will demonstrate the incompetence.
<br> military blunders , and failed policies of 8 years .
<br>-We can only hope several historians will write about the cause and effect of these failures in judgement in so many areas so future generations will not repeat them .
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<br>Clinton Takes Credit for Thwarting Terror
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<br>Wednesday, October 10, 2001
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<br>WASHINGTON — At least 15 terrorist attacks didn't get off the ground thanks to deterrence by President Clinton's administration, the former president said Tuesday.
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<br>Speaking at a Distinguished Speakers Forum in Washington, Clinton said the key to preventing other attacks will come from support for President Bush's current efforts and doing "more to reduce the pool of potential terrorists."
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<br>"Though neither I nor anyone can tell you there will not be another terrorist attack on U.S. soil, it will be all right," Clinton told a packed Kennedy Center concert hall. "They still can't win unless we give them permission. We are not about to give them permission."
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<br>Clinton also confirmed a failed U.S. attempt in 1996 to have Usama bin Laden arrested in Sudan and placed in Saudi Arabian custody and a CIA-sponsored plan to have Pakistani commandos hunt him down in 1999, abandoned after a military coup there.
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<br>Bin Laden is the prime suspect in last month's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.
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<br>Clinton said bin Laden's network will be difficult to disable.
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<br>"He's smart, he's rich, he's ruthless, bold," Clinton said. "What bin Laden is good at is finding the seams in our defenses."
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<br>Clinton ticked off a list of thwarted terrorist attacks, including plans to bomb the Holland Tunnel connecting New York City and New Jersey and a flight from Los Angeles to the Philippines and to kill the pope.
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<br>He said that during the celebrations marking the turn of the century, a dozen terrorist plots were stopped, including planned attacks in the northeastern and northwestern United States, at the Los Angeles airport, a hotel in Jordan and a Christian holy site in the Middle East.
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<br>"If we take down barriers, collapse differences, spread knowledge, we are inevitably vulnerable here in ways we never were before," Clinton said.
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<br>To combat that reality, Clinton said Bush's fight against terrorism on military, economic, legal and diplomatic fronts is key.
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<br>But it is also necessary to work to alleviate poverty and oppression that creates disaffected people ripe for terrorists' arguments. That should include increased debt relief for poor nations, AIDS-fighting funds and democracy-promoting efforts, Clinton said.
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<br>"Terrorists ... feel they can recruit among the dispossessed," Clinton said. "We must do more to reduce the pool of potential terrorists."
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