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Can Sailing Instructions Override Class Rules? #286721
04/27/17 07:48 AM
04/27/17 07:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Can Sailing Instructions Override Class Rules?


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
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Re: Can Sailing Instructions Override Class Rules? [Re: David Ingram] #286722
04/27/17 09:38 AM
04/27/17 09:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
In regards to Safety, Scoring, Course, Penalties, and advertising displays, yes.

They can make you add Safety equipment (I have never seen a Race subtract safety equipment.).

They can score versions of a boat either together or separately. For example Spin/nonspin F18's are all F18's, allow wings, allow carbon masts, or score all foiling boats the same. They can adjust ratings. They could say, in less than 3kts of wind, all boats will be scored as a single one design class called Iwanttogohome.

They can add a reach course to a class that precludes it or preclude a reach from a class that requires it.

They can say inadvertent contact is still contact and penalties apply while the class rules say otherwise.

They can make you take everything except your sail number and class insignia off your boat or add a giant ad sticker to your boat.

The sailing instructions can make a big difference.

Re: Can Sailing Instructions Override Class Rules? [Re: carlbohannon] #286723
04/27/17 10:13 AM
04/27/17 10:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
RRS 87 is very clear about this:

87 CHANGES TO CLASS RULES
The notice of race or sailing instructions may change a class rule
only when the class rules permit the change, or when written
permission of the class association for the change is displayed on the
official notice board.

Some thoughts:

You can't just change anything that you want without approval of the class (either within the rule, or by requesting the change for your event).

You really should do this in the NOR so that people know what to expect, as it may impact their decision to attend.

Remember that for handicap races, the handicap system rules rank as class rules per the RRS definition of Rule.

Much of what Carl has listed probably aren't (and certainly shouldn't be) class rules so much as policies for class-sanctioned events (typically points regattas, nationals, etc.).

I have seen some OAs waive safety rules, which is a horrible practice.

Advertising is covered by separate rules (RRS and World Sailing regulations), so there are limits on what can/should be altered in SIs.

A common work-around for mixed, non-sanctioned events is to state that there shall be no penalty for breaking rule (fill in blank). Technically, this isn't a class rule change, you're just making it known that it won't be enforced. Again, this isn't always a good idea.

Hope this helps.

Mike

Re: Can Sailing Instructions Override Class Rules? [Re: brucat] #286724
04/27/17 09:06 PM
04/27/17 09:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Changes go a bit deeper than just rule 87.

Start with rules 85 and 86.

In theory, class rules should only cover the equipment and no other aspect of racing (like course types). Some classes have sections in their bylaws or class rules that cover conduct of their major events (Thistle and Tornado classes come to mind), but whether these rank as "class rules" is subject to debate.

The RRS and World Sailing Regulations cover pretty much everything else. Sailing Instructions (and now the NOR, a change for 2017) can change only a very few rules, and only class rules as permitted under rule 87.

Note that for a World Sailing International Class (F-18, Hobie 16, etc.) approval of a class rule change not already permitted in the class rule must come from World Sailing, not the class.

Re: Can Sailing Instructions Override Class Rules? [Re: David Ingram] #286725
04/28/17 01:34 AM
04/28/17 01:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline
old hand

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Soooooo glad I got out of race management!


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
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Re: Can Sailing Instructions Override Class Rules? [Re: mbounds] #286726
04/28/17 12:56 PM
04/28/17 12:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
How do Rules 85 and 86 apply to the question posted by Ding?

Looking at the Regulations, they don't use the term International Class anymore, but the intent is covered under World Sailing Classes.

I read Reg 10.5 (f) slightly differently than Matt. I would say that the class is still responsible for approving the SI change per RRS 87; however, the class must first get approval of World Sailing, and that is only required for a class event (defined as initiated and controlled by the class association).

Anyone still awake?

Mike


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