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Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287107
06/07/17 06:09 AM
06/07/17 06:09 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Another point - one very good solid reason why they have one-design wings. Safety. If the wing design had been up to the individual design teams, everyone would have taken the designs to the structural edge with every regard toward speed and lightness. Having the mast stay in one piece during a capsize wouldn't have been in the design criteria. The AC Authority got this aspect completely correct.


Jake Kohl
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287108
06/07/17 07:18 AM
06/07/17 07:18 AM
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Atlanta, GA
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A question about the penalties. I know other team will know when you receive a penalty but do they know when you've been released from it?


Kent
1988 H16
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287109
06/07/17 07:38 AM
06/07/17 07:38 AM
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Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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The part of the press conference that I enjoyed the most was when Nathan Outteridge said Artemis was trying to take the penalty, but 40 knots was as slow as they could safely sail.

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287110
06/07/17 07:43 AM
06/07/17 07:43 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
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I was amazed the mast (wing) and the rigging holding it in place held up for the righting, perhaps they did design for that .


Blade F16
#777
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287111
06/07/17 08:12 AM
06/07/17 08:12 AM
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Philip, I only call what I see. You said GBR turned back, which to me means, stop racing and sail back to pull bodies from the water (as we mere mortals do every weekend if necessary). I agree that he slowed and looked back, but that's a very different animal.

And just so you don't think I hate Ben for this, I agree that it would have been more dangerous for them to sail back to the crash scene. The power boats are there for that.

For the record, I'll always think that Burling should have retired after the SWE race with the bad umpire call. Yes, in the heat of the moment he panicked and pushed the button, but could have redeemed himself with greater sportsmanship afterwards.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: Timbo] #287112
06/07/17 08:17 AM
06/07/17 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Timbo
I was amazed the mast (wing) and the rigging holding it in place held up for the righting, perhaps they did design for that .



I wonder if the forces on the wing are greatest while foiling, floating ("displacement mode"), gybing or capsized. The water was pretty flat, and didn't look too uncomfortable to be capsized there.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: brucat] #287113
06/07/17 09:04 AM
06/07/17 09:04 AM
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On the Water
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Originally Posted by brucat
Philip, I only call what I see. You said GBR turned back,

Mike, you missed the narrative and you are nit-picking, and clearly taking words out of context. I stand behind my words. They stopped racing. Fact. They proceeded in their protocol for this safety event. Fact.

Listen to this.

2:22 mark

then go back and watch the boat's tracks on the virtual eye replay, which clear shows them stopping to assist.

So to edit my words to satisfy your delusional interpretation of what everyone else gets, I shall state that "BAR stopped to assist".

And let me add, my feelings at the time was that these pros put safety first, that they are a band of brothers, and I found it extremely honorable that BAR immediately stopped racing and went into ASSIST mode.

Therefore, WOW !!


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287115
06/07/17 09:06 AM
06/07/17 09:06 AM
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Good stuff here.
Race Day 3 action-shots


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287116
06/07/17 09:08 AM
06/07/17 09:08 AM
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Distructive Day Video



Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287117
06/07/17 09:09 AM
06/07/17 09:09 AM
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Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287118
06/07/17 09:12 AM
06/07/17 09:12 AM
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Good info



Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287119
06/07/17 09:15 AM
06/07/17 09:15 AM
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Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287120
06/07/17 09:20 AM
06/07/17 09:20 AM
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Today's races

14:08 Bermuda
NZL vs GBR (R5)

14:36 Bermuda
SWE vs JPN (R5)

15:06 Bermuda
GBR vs NZL* (R6)

15:35 Bermuda
JPN vs SWE* (R6)


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287121
06/07/17 09:32 AM
06/07/17 09:32 AM
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High winds and building. We could see postponements due to upper wind limit.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: P.M.] #287122
06/07/17 10:31 AM
06/07/17 10:31 AM
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+31NL
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Picture from the race course right now, looks way windier than yesterday
[Linked Image]

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287123
06/07/17 11:29 AM
06/07/17 11:29 AM
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Under postponement and monitoring wind and sea-state.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287124
06/07/17 11:51 AM
06/07/17 11:51 AM
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We are done. Racing postponed for the day.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287125
06/07/17 01:08 PM
06/07/17 01:08 PM
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Sebring, Florida.
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Have they come up with an upper and lower wind limit to start and or abandon a race yet? I haven't heard one mentioned...yet, but after yesterday's wipeout they might come up with one.


Blade F16
#777
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287126
06/07/17 01:26 PM
06/07/17 01:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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Solomon's Island, MD
Its all in the rules: https://www.americascup.com/en/news/2583_KNOW-THE-ESSENTIALS-AMERICAS-CUP-RULES-101.html

6-24 kts, taken as a 5 minute average between 8 and 3 minutes before the start.

I feel for TNZ on this one, but the damage could have been much, much worse. I'm sure they will be back out there tomorrow.

The safety of the one design aspect of the boats certainly shone through yesterday, but I still don't entirely agree with this. The one design beams I'm okay with, the one deisgn #1 element on the wing I am sort of okay with, the rest not really. FYI the #2 element (trailing edge flap) and wing controls are not one design and open to interpretation. My understanding is only the structural main element mast is really strictly one design. I think TNZ would have gone with more margin in the hulls rather than relying on Oracles lower volume prescribed hull design, if given the flexibility there. Would it have saved them? No, they were on the foils going down the mine and it was too late by the time the bows hit. If anything a bigger bow section would have hurt. The emphasis on the controls and foils clearly favor Oracle, who have more experience than any other team besides the less well funded TNZ campaign. I understand the AC is never very fair but I preferred the run what you bring and your wallet can swallow over this glorified AC45F racing. Frankly the same level of racing could be had with a box/open rule AC45F.

I'm really disappointed Oracle sailed in the initial LV challenger series. I think that was rather unfair and unsportsman like. I'm also not okay with the 1 boat rule for the challengers. That clearly favors Oracle whom I suspect have a second boat in the shed just in case (with the amount of money thrown around, why wouldn't you?). One designing the major structural elements of the boat made it pretty feasible that a second boat could be built on the cheap. This puts Oracle in a position to effectively force races in conditions that are otherwise very hairy and marginal, yesterday wasn't deadly but it was a bit marginal. By the time the challenger gets through to the finals, they will likely have done some damage to their race stead and be operating at a higher weight as a result. Far from ideal if it goes light, but good for Oracle!


Scorpion F18
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287127
06/07/17 01:56 PM
06/07/17 01:56 PM
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brucat Offline
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It's not an easy balance. They need more teams, or no one will watch/care. The teams have stated (over and over) that cost is a major obstacle. That's the reason for the one-boat rule, and the size/design itself. They tried to minimize how much design each team would need to develop and fund. I too was disappointed when they announced 50 footers.

Conspiracy theorists may say otherwise.

Mike

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