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by Banzilla. 07/05/21 11:17 AM
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Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287128
06/07/17 01:57 PM
06/07/17 01:57 PM
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brucat Offline
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Philip, let's just sat that we agree to disagree on Ben's actions and intent yesterday. It's certainly not personal. Thanks for all the great links and posts.

Mike

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287129
06/07/17 02:22 PM
06/07/17 02:22 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 117
Atlanta, GA
KentHobie Offline
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Atlanta, GA
I couldn't watch anything today. Was NZ back out on course? Any more info on the repairs they needed to make? Having two wings that both need repairs would put a huge strain on them. Unless of course they have a third one.


Kent
1988 H16
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287130
06/07/17 02:23 PM
06/07/17 02:23 PM
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brucat Offline
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No racing, too much wind. Not sure if anyone went out earlier in the day.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: samc99us] #287131
06/07/17 06:36 PM
06/07/17 06:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by samc99us
Its all in the rules: https://www.americascup.com/en/news/2583_KNOW-THE-ESSENTIALS-AMERICAS-CUP-RULES-101.html

6-24 kts, taken as a 5 minute average between 8 and 3 minutes before the start.

I feel for TNZ on this one, but the damage could have been much, much worse. I'm sure they will be back out there tomorrow.

The safety of the one design aspect of the boats certainly shone through yesterday, but I still don't entirely agree with this. The one design beams I'm okay with, the one deisgn #1 element on the wing I am sort of okay with, the rest not really. FYI the #2 element (trailing edge flap) and wing controls are not one design and open to interpretation. My understanding is only the structural main element mast is really strictly one design. I think TNZ would have gone with more margin in the hulls rather than relying on Oracles lower volume prescribed hull design, if given the flexibility there. Would it have saved them? No, they were on the foils going down the mine and it was too late by the time the bows hit. If anything a bigger bow section would have hurt. The emphasis on the controls and foils clearly favor Oracle, who have more experience than any other team besides the less well funded TNZ campaign. I understand the AC is never very fair but I preferred the run what you bring and your wallet can swallow over this glorified AC45F racing. Frankly the same level of racing could be had with a box/open rule AC45F.

I'm really disappointed Oracle sailed in the initial LV challenger series. I think that was rather unfair and unsportsman like. I'm also not okay with the 1 boat rule for the challengers. That clearly favors Oracle whom I suspect have a second boat in the shed just in case (with the amount of money thrown around, why wouldn't you?). One designing the major structural elements of the boat made it pretty feasible that a second boat could be built on the cheap. This puts Oracle in a position to effectively force races in conditions that are otherwise very hairy and marginal, yesterday wasn't deadly but it was a bit marginal. By the time the challenger gets through to the finals, they will likely have done some damage to their race stead and be operating at a higher weight as a result. Far from ideal if it goes light, but good for Oracle!


Jesus some of you guys are a buzz kill! I seriously doubt Oracle has a second boat. There's not THAT much hangar space out there and they would get called out on that in very short order if they pulled something like that out of the shed. lol.

This has been a fantastic event so far. Oracle was in the first round robin series and it has been controversial. Questions should be asked and discussed - no harm in that. It was the compromise to reducing cost by going to one boat campaigns - Oracle has no second boat to race against and test with and the other teams thought it unfair if Oracle was allowed to have two boats and they weren't.
It would be really obscene to expect Oracle to have no opportunity to race head to head against anybody and go straight into the final round. I would be over pretty fast and it would seriously negatively impact their chances of holding the cup. Oracle needed something in exchange for reducing the campaign cost by agreeing to one boat (and let's face it, Larry Ellison would probably fork out the money pretty fast for a second boat if he could). It sounds reasonable to me.

The camera footage and video assembly has been OUTSTANDING. The summary of yesterday is chill inducing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3rd9rjKKx4)

I think they do have some real calculating to do on the best way to assign and clear penalties. It's been a real point of contention in several races. I think they need to go back and eventually reconsider some sort of course changing maneuver instead of the GPS derived thing...cross a beam reach and come back to course or something...maybe these boats turn fast enough now that a 360 is reasonable (though I kinda doubt it)...or maybe even just an easy to understand flat-out finish time penalty for each incursion (5, 10 seconds?).



Last edited by Jake; 06/07/17 06:37 PM.

Jake Kohl
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287132
06/07/17 07:26 PM
06/07/17 07:26 PM
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brucat Offline
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Finish time penalty may make the most sense. I've thought of an opposite-direction half-turn (gybe if you're going up wind, tack if going downwind) as an alternate penalty, but that would be way too dangerous in winds over 20.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287133
06/07/17 08:24 PM
06/07/17 08:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 473
Panama City, Florida
Redtwin Offline
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Panama City, Florida
Here's a good one...



Rob V. Nacra 5.2 Panama City
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287134
06/07/17 09:36 PM
06/07/17 09:36 PM
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brucat Offline
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We need that Irish dude from the Olympics to do the play calls on days with yesterday's wind!

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: brucat] #287135
06/07/17 10:08 PM
06/07/17 10:08 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
veteran
JeffS  Offline
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Kingston SE South Australia
Bwahahaha would be awesome


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
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Arrow 1576
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287136
06/08/17 07:21 AM
06/08/17 07:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
old hand
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Solomon's Island, MD
I'm pretty aware of the dock space in Bermuda, having been on the grounds of the team bases several times. I just find it hard to believe they, the defenders, don't have a second boat but I'm also likely to be wrong this cup cycle. I'm willing to bet they have everything for a second boat in the shed, it just might not be fully assembled.

The defenders had plenty of practice race opportunities on the great sound before the competition began. To say they had no real racing opportunity prior to the start of the real competition is a falsehood. They didn't need to sail in the Louis Vutton series to learn what they already knew going in or watching from afar like every other defender, including themselves, have done in the past 166 years of cup tradition. They sailed in it to take a 1 point lead in the AC finals. Not particularly fair if you ask me, but the AC has never been about fairness.

I do agree the race footage, when you can get it, has been spectacular!


Scorpion F18
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287137
06/08/17 07:32 AM
06/08/17 07:32 AM
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brucat Offline
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I've had zero problems getting footage, live or replay, via NBCSN, on PC and Android, also live on TV when I'm home. I'm​ not getting Virtual Eye, but don't care.

We desperately need a defender series. Did AUS, NZL or Alinghi have defender series during their tenure?

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 06/08/17 07:36 AM.
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287138
06/08/17 09:58 AM
06/08/17 09:58 AM
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brucat Offline
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Forecast for today?

I just found a site calling for low teens in the afternoon. Not sure if that's reliable.

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 06/08/17 10:08 AM.
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287139
06/08/17 10:59 AM
06/08/17 10:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
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On the Water
winds 11-13 knots. Perfect day to race.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287140
06/08/17 11:27 AM
06/08/17 11:27 AM
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brucat Offline
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Cool. Go Artemis!!!

Three races per pair scheduled​. This round could end today.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287141
06/08/17 12:31 PM
06/08/17 12:31 PM
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brucat Offline
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16 knots of breeze at the start, boat speeds over 40 knots at the first mark!

NZL with some sort of issue (of lack of confidence?) at the start, handed GBR a huge lead, but NZL was ridiculous on the foils, making GBR look like amateurs in their roundings. NZL passed on the final beat, never looked back.

I don't care what the commentators say, GBR should have covered and given a better fight. This is match racing, and sometimes the slower boat can win.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287142
06/08/17 12:54 PM
06/08/17 12:54 PM
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brucat Offline
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SWE with a great setup and defense in the pre-start, but slow to the line. JPN over early, and SWE capitalized. JPN went for a split at the first leeward gate, but SWE gybed to cover! Great match race happening here, Ainsle should pay attention...

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287143
06/08/17 12:58 PM
06/08/17 12:58 PM
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brucat Offline
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Artemis takes Race 5, score 3-2. Awesome!!!

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287144
06/08/17 01:13 PM
06/08/17 01:13 PM
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brucat Offline
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Ben seems to have gotten the message, covering much tighter in this one. Just let NZL tack away, though...

GBR sailing much better than NZL so far in this one

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287145
06/08/17 01:24 PM
06/08/17 01:24 PM
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brucat Offline
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Ainsle got one! Just needs to sweep the next three...

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287146
06/08/17 02:04 PM
06/08/17 02:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 311
Memphis, Tennessee
Damon Linkous Offline

enthusiast
Damon Linkous  Offline

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Memphis, Tennessee
Think Sir Ben might be a little aggressive on this last race?

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287147
06/08/17 02:08 PM
06/08/17 02:08 PM
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brucat Offline
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Artemis takes the second to tie 3-3!!!

Ainsle is hosed early in this one...

Mike

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