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Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287448
06/24/17 12:13 PM
06/24/17 12:13 PM
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What was all that talk about splits??


Philip
USA #1006
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287449
06/24/17 12:16 PM
06/24/17 12:16 PM
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Wow, this is a fun one!

Surprising how the lead boats aren't covering (loosely), it's hurt them both.

Nathan did say that they've found that following around into a tack is faster than gybing going into the gate to gain a split.

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 06/24/17 12:16 PM.
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287450
06/24/17 12:17 PM
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Finally! NZL 4, USA 1!!!

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: P.M.] #287451
06/24/17 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by P.M.
Oracle did it text book perfect. Tack earlier and you loose your boundary privileges. They re-acted to the dial down and stayed clear as good as they could coming off a boundary tack. It was just a bad call.


It looked like they could have turned down more, but didn't expect NZL to hold the dial down as long. I didn't like the call at first, but it looks correct in the replays. Probably could have gone as a no-penalty, but I don't think it was a horrible call.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: brucat] #287452
06/24/17 12:31 PM
06/24/17 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by brucat
Wow, this is a fun one!

Surprising how the lead boats aren't covering (loosely), it's hurt them both.

Nathan did say that they've found that following around into a tack is faster than gybing going into the gate to gain a split.

Mike


Exactly! I still think that at least one time I saw them tack, it was into a header so just tacking to get a split isn't great - but the other time that was executed, it looked even and like a decent move. It's soooo hard to cover in that kind of breeze. It costs so much while maneuvering to stay on your opponent that you are likely putting yourself in jeopardy. The question is how confident you are in the patch of water you are sailing in and toward.

So, the dial down. I see two advantages but I'm lost on what it does for you otherwise. If you can force your opponent to get a penalty during the maneuver (particularly if they're just tacking away from the boundary where there doesn't appear like there is anyway to avoid getting a penalty), sure...looks great. If you can force your opponent to be much tighter on their layline, also looks great. But just executing a dial down in the middle of the course for no reason other than you're headed right at each other, what's the point? You both go equally faster and you're now distracted from what the wind is doing. I'm not a fan of the move unless one of the other scenarios is present.

Last edited by Jake; 06/24/17 12:32 PM.

Jake Kohl
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287453
06/24/17 01:01 PM
06/24/17 01:01 PM
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Presser live here


Philip
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Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287454
06/24/17 01:14 PM
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I think the dial-down is crucial. You're right, the goal is ultimately a (rare) penalty. Remember, the stbd boat going into the dial-down will be port on the next cross. If everything else is even, they'll be behind after the next cross without a penalty.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287456
06/25/17 07:15 AM
06/25/17 07:15 AM
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Race 6 stats (course wind 9 kts):

Average Speed:
26.71 kts
USA

26.65 kts
NZL

NUMBER OF TACKS & GYBES:
19
USA

17
NZL

DISTANCE SAILED:
USA
4489.6 (m)

NZL
4249 (m)

Oracle has found some speed but at the sacrifice of boat handling, which could be the Achilles heal in a critical maneuver. Oracle sailed a longer course, had two more tacks than NZ, and still won. The difference was reflected in the legs with significant gains, like leg 6, and the upwind legs. Both teams were equal in speed upwind and the tactics, position, and being on the favorable side of the slightest shift paid big for Oracle.

If the racing remains tight, the team that wins the upwind legs, will likely win the cup, just like AC34.

TIME OF EACH LEG:
LEG USA NZL
1 44 secs 48.2 secs
2 89.1 secs 91.1 secs
3 308.8 secs 315.1 secs
4 213 secs 194.9 secs
5 352.2 secs 358.1 secs
6 106.5 secs 126.3 secs
7 133.3 secs 124.9 secs

On the final reaching leg NZ reduced an 18 seconds deficit down to 11 seconds.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287457
06/25/17 07:17 AM
06/25/17 07:17 AM
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Damon, the quick reply or the full editor will not accept consecutive spaces. I can't seem to get it to work. FYI.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: P.M.] #287459
06/25/17 08:22 AM
06/25/17 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by P.M.
Race 6 stats Average Speed:
26.71 kts
USA

26.65 kts
NZL

DISTANCE SAILED:
USA
4489.6 (m)

NZL
4249 (m).

Those numbers don't add up. If USA sailed 4489.6 meters at an average speed of 26.71 knots (13.74 meters per second), then they sailed for 326.8 seconds. Likewise, if NZL sailed 4249 meters at an average speed of 26.65 knots (13.71 meters per second), they sailed for 309.9 seconds.

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: Isotope235] #287460
06/25/17 09:06 AM
06/25/17 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Isotope235
Originally Posted by P.M.
Race 6 stats Average Speed:
26.71 kts
USA

26.65 kts
NZL

DISTANCE SAILED:
USA
4489.6 (m)

NZL
4249 (m).

Those numbers don't add up. If USA sailed 4489.6 meters at an average speed of 26.71 knots (13.74 meters per second), then they sailed for 326.8 seconds. Likewise, if NZL sailed 4249 meters at an average speed of 26.65 knots (13.71 meters per second), they sailed for 309.9 seconds.

Data came from here:
Match Race 6 Stats
the website is reporting it wrong (looks like it is reporting just one downwind leg), but the app is reporting it correctly, but race 5 & 6 hasn't been updated yet in the app. Nice catch Eric.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287461
06/25/17 09:06 AM
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Wind forecast 8-9 knts from the south.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287462
06/25/17 09:35 AM
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Very entertaining presser! Not much in terms of technical info on the boat changes (who really expected that?), but lots of insight into the psyche on Oracle.

Listening to their comments on the dial-down penalty, and watching it again, it certainly could have gone either way and maybe green would have been a better call. Either boat could have been penalyzed, with more focus on port, so I understand the penalty call going against USA. Jimmy certainly thinks NZL got away with another one.

Burling just needs to lose. I really don't like his attitude. Saying that he wants to keep the regatta out of the hands of the umpires doesn't gel with constantly pushing that button. That, and every time something shows his team as slow (being passed or losing), he reverts to claiming that the boat is still suffering from the pitchpole three weeks ago. I just can't respect that attitude. It's akin to Ainsle whining about being a new team and being too far behind in development.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287463
06/25/17 11:19 AM
06/25/17 11:19 AM
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Oh boy, I missed the actual start, but saw the bottom half of leg 2. Interesting that both Draper and Nathan were saying that following was a huge mistake (even before it happened). They both would have double-gybed and split at the bottom.

NZL looking slightly faster upwind, covering tighter, now blowing it open by covering more loosely.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287464
06/25/17 11:22 AM
06/25/17 11:22 AM
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Someone must have read a match racing book to Burling and company. They loosely covered after the weather gate, minimizing the damage after Oracle split and rounded into a better shift/pressure.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287465
06/25/17 11:28 AM
06/25/17 11:28 AM
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Loose cover again after the leeward gate. It's going to be tough to pass.

Just saw the replay of the start. Yikes, Jimmy either doesn't have confidence in his instruments (as he mentioned in yesterday's presser), or just misjudged his timing and turns. Uncharacteristic error, that's for sure.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287466
06/25/17 11:29 AM
06/25/17 11:29 AM
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Maybe Oracle just needs to run this to 6-1 to mount a proper comeback???

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287467
06/25/17 11:32 AM
06/25/17 11:32 AM
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NZL 5, USA 1...

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287468
06/25/17 12:01 PM
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Seriously??? The pre-start of Race 8 was just embarrassing. Spithill allowed Burling to get the hook (Burling then waved to him when under him, a bit of a taunt, I thought), then just couldn't get any boatspeed to get to the line. Wow.

Split at the bottom, NZL tacked to apply loose cover. USA going faster at the moment.

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287469
06/25/17 12:04 PM
06/25/17 12:04 PM
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Nathan is saying that the fancy NZL prestart maneuver was done by Ashby as Burling was running across the tramp. If true, that aggravates me even more about that wave.

NZL more tightly covering here. USA looking desperate with some of these tacking decisions.

Mike

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