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Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: P.M.] #287491
06/26/17 07:54 AM
06/26/17 07:54 AM
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Mn3Again Offline
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Thanks


Mn3
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: Mn3Again] #287492
06/26/17 08:33 AM
06/26/17 08:33 AM
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Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
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Since I didn't watch the BT version with Cayard (probably should, but I do like Nathan & Draper's comments).. Too bad the three of them couldn't be on the same show.

Questions:
- Did Oracle really remove an accumulator? If so, Burling needs to drive all over him to force maneuvers and kill the oil pressure
- Oracle does have trouble getting up on foils in the light stuff, so I could see how NZL could pull off that hook.
- Did Draper really say that Ashby has something of an "app for that"? I think he said Algorithm that sets wing parameters... like you were saying about "following the dot" He also said Tuke was controlling the ride foils.

The guy who washes the wing at night likely has more sailing ability in his pinky finger than I will ever get during my life, so major props to all the teams (FRA included). This has been the most exciting cup series I've watched since the 80's. No one has really run away with things (well, except for NZL lately but I don't think it's due to groundbreaking design like AUS II or the USA trimaran).

There were plenty of nail-biter races (SWE/NZL comes to mind most often), and deltas of 30 seconds are considered "runaway" victories.... Hell, I remember deltas of 5 minutes or more being a close race in days of yore...

And whether the AC developed these technologies or not, I do hope some of it trickles down to the rest of sailing. Automated ride height, wing foil controls, and even basic foil shapes should make sport boat/multihull sailing more fast, safe and fun.


Jay

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: brucat] #287493
06/26/17 08:41 AM
06/26/17 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by brucat
Originally Posted by Jake


Lol, I still need to go back and watch it. I'm wouldn't be offended by that wave - Spithill has been talking trash ever since he's been in the America's Cup. That's what trash talking gets you.


Maybe that's my long-term memory starting to fade, but I don't remember anything like that in this cycle.

Mike


It hasn't been that bad this time around...there was some slightly snarky stuff from Spithill on Saturday. The last iteration, though, really set off New Zealand and their media is really being tough on him. As is Clean from Sailing Anarchy. Clean asked him if he felt like he was too old and then started asking Burling if he expected Oracle to switch helmsmen. Some New Zealand media asked Jimmy (and I paraphrase loosely) if he was saying that a team sponsored by a computer / data company was having trouble with their computers/data on the start line. Ouch.

Oh, and BTW, it's our very own Laura Muma - Chicago and Florida catsailor (A-cat & F18) who is hosting many of those press conferences!



Jake Kohl
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: Jake] #287494
06/26/17 08:44 AM
06/26/17 08:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Originally Posted by Jake


Oh, and BTW, it's our very own Laura Muma - Chicago and Florida catsailor (A-cat & F18) who is hosting many of those press conferences!



Isn't Ding her crew sometimes?


Jay

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: waterbug_wpb] #287495
06/26/17 08:45 AM
06/26/17 08:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Since I didn't watch the BT version with Cayard (probably should, but I do like Nathan & Draper's comments).. Too bad the three of them couldn't be on the same show.

Questions:
- Did Oracle really remove an accumulator? If so, Burling needs to drive all over him to force maneuvers and kill the oil pressure
- Oracle does have trouble getting up on foils in the light stuff, so I could see how NZL could pull off that hook.
- Did Draper really say that Ashby has something of an "app for that"? I think he said Algorithm that sets wing parameters... like you were saying about "following the dot" He also said Tuke was controlling the ride foils.

The guy who washes the wing at night likely has more sailing ability in his pinky finger than I will ever get during my life, so major props to all the teams (FRA included). This has been the most exciting cup series I've watched since the 80's. No one has really run away with things (well, except for NZL lately but I don't think it's due to groundbreaking design like AUS II or the USA trimaran).

There were plenty of nail-biter races (SWE/NZL comes to mind most often), and deltas of 30 seconds are considered "runaway" victories.... Hell, I remember deltas of 5 minutes or more being a close race in days of yore...

And whether the AC developed these technologies or not, I do hope some of it trickles down to the rest of sailing. Automated ride height, wing foil controls, and even basic foil shapes should make sport boat/multihull sailing more fast, safe and fun.


I didn't hear about them actually removing anything other than the stairstepper but I suppose it's possible. I heard in one of the rule press conferences from Saturday that the class legal boat weight is X +/- 100kgs and they're limited to only making 100kg changes at a time (I think I have that right but you may want to double check that before you put down any money on it!). So, they are limited in how much they can remove...but getting 200lbs out of the boat is quite a lot of stuff being chucked overboard. IF Oracle wasn't sailing right near the minimum weight to begin with, this is another example of them just not being prepared in my opinion.

I still think they're all still guessing a good deal at what control systems they have employed. Remember, though, the rules are very clear: data systems and control systems have to be mechanically and electrically isolated. All wiring has to be clearly labeled and both systems have to have their own electrical disconnect. A computer cannot read a sensor and make an adjustment. A computer can recommend an adjustment and the sailor can react to that recommendation but it has to be on a different device. A computer also cannot recommend an adjustment and perform any mechanical guidance to making that adjustment. All control input has to be "manual" although "manual" can include some degree of firing off timed sequences of control motions (I'm not 100% clear on if that timed sequence can include more than one action per control input but I suspect that it can).


Jake Kohl
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: waterbug_wpb] #287496
06/26/17 08:55 AM
06/26/17 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by Jake


Oh, and BTW, it's our very own Laura Muma - Chicago and Florida catsailor (A-cat & F18) who is hosting many of those press conferences!



Isn't Ding her crew sometimes?


Yes


Jake Kohl
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287497
06/26/17 09:31 AM
06/26/17 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ThunderMuffin
Originally Posted by brucat
Originally Posted by ThunderMuffin
So what happens when NZ takes the cup?

Are foiling cats done? Are we back to yawnfest monohulls? Is NZ going to put a stranglehold on the cup by insisting that all of the team members be from the country of the challenger?


I suspect that a good portion‚Äčof that will depend upon their COR. Who do we expect that to be?

Mike


Supposedly Luna Rossa.



LR as COR? On boy. They're probably the only ones (of recent entries) with the spite to want to go back to monohulls.

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 06/26/17 09:42 AM.
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: brucat] #287498
06/26/17 09:44 AM
06/26/17 09:44 AM
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Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Originally Posted by brucat
Originally Posted by ThunderMuffin
Originally Posted by brucat
Originally Posted by ThunderMuffin
So what happens when NZ takes the cup?

Are foiling cats done? Are we back to yawnfest monohulls? Is NZ going to put a stranglehold on the cup by insisting that all of the team members be from the country of the challenger?


I suspect that a good portion‚Äčof that will depend upon their COR. Who do we expect that to be?

Mike


Supposedly Luna Rossa.



LR as COR? On boy. They're probably the only ones (of recent entries) with the spite to want to go back to monohulls.

Mike


Supposedly someone interviewed Bertarelli and he said that he was ready to jump back into the AC on the current boats - So who knows whats in store for the future. All I know is that I don't trust the Kiwis. They're vindictive and spiteful - well at least Dalts is.

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287499
06/26/17 09:50 AM
06/26/17 09:50 AM
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Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
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The kiwis don't want an $$ arms race. They struggled with funding this cycle. The current cycle format works in their favor.

I do see NZ government throwing some resources at it if they are defenders.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287500
06/26/17 11:00 AM
06/26/17 11:00 AM
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brucat Offline
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Any attempt to shrink teams and budgets have failed miserably. Sure, there are fewer sailors, but the support teams are massive. It may not be realistic, but I'd really rather have it be the other way around.

BTW, where has Uncle Larry been hiding? I seem to recall him being front and center during the last cycle.

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 06/26/17 11:02 AM.
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287501
06/26/17 11:13 AM
06/26/17 11:13 AM
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brucat Offline
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I just saw a forecast of 5 mph or less for today. What are you guys seeing?

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287502
06/26/17 11:48 AM
06/26/17 11:48 AM
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Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
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Winds 182 degrees at 9.9 knts, 10.5 peak


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: P.M.] #287503
06/26/17 12:08 PM
06/26/17 12:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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I can't get logged into NBC Sports Network or even get to a login screen on the live screen - anybody else having trouble?


Jake Kohl
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287504
06/26/17 12:10 PM
06/26/17 12:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
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On the Water


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287505
06/26/17 12:10 PM
06/26/17 12:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
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On the Water
Jake, I have 2 accounts, it happened to me on one of them, the other is working fine. . . . so F*ck NBC


Philip
USA #1006
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: P.M.] #287506
06/26/17 12:13 PM
06/26/17 12:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by P.M.


A.W.E.S.O.M.E. Thanks


Jake Kohl
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287507
06/26/17 12:16 PM
06/26/17 12:16 PM
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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I agree with the split there...it was a closer gate.

I agree with the NATURE of that split...I can't see the breeze on this low resolution and multitasking on a conference call ;-)

Last edited by Jake; 06/26/17 12:18 PM.

Jake Kohl
Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287508
06/26/17 12:20 PM
06/26/17 12:20 PM
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brucat Offline
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I was having the same problem on Chrome, even after clearing cookies, etc. No problem on FireFox, didn't even ask me to log in.

We're pretty screwed in this race. Great job at the start, but getting passed like that downwind is not a good omen. Neither Nathan nor Draper were impressed with the gybe before the gate, they would have followed and tacked to gain the split.

NZL just blew a tack!

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287509
06/26/17 12:23 PM
06/26/17 12:23 PM
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brucat Offline
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This is tough. Oracle gained on a right shift, then went all the way to the left, getting out of phase, and sailed into a hole...

Fat Lady cued up?

Mike

Re: 35th America's Cup [Re: David Parker] #287510
06/26/17 12:30 PM
06/26/17 12:30 PM
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brucat Offline
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My feed dropped out!!!!!

Ok, I'm back, but this isn't looking better. USA tacked back to the right near the top gate, NZL covering. USA tacked back to stbd, NZL covering.

We need a miracle.

Mike

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